So, forgive me for this probably being an oversimplification, but is this the same sort of thing as the old Clipper Chips?
How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
51–60 of 126 posts
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#52I've never heard of this before. This feels like science-fiction. You'd think this would have blown over the internet 50 times over? What can 'they' do with this?
It is like cell phone radios with DMA access. Anything they want, in practice. If you are buying any computer commercially it always has backdoored hardware with a wholly proprietary coprocessor with networking and memory access.
Really??
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#53So, forgive me for this probably being an oversimplification, but is this the same sort of thing as the old Clipper Chips? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip
As I understand it, the clipper chip was a combined encryption accelerator and key escrow device, with the escrow basically working as a government backdoor.
The Intel Management Engine is another computer in your computer, running its own OS, and able to see everything your computer is doing, and modify it, including things like network transfers.
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is like cell phone radios with DMA access. Anything they want, in practice. If you are buying any computer commercially it always has backdoored hardware with a wholly proprietary coprocessor with networking and memory access.
Really??
Yeah, really. It's relatively well known among free software enthusiasts. The trouble is, what do you do about it?
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firewalling ports for incoming connections and IP addresses for outgoing, I should say.
Just be mindful of the fact that you've only increased the difficulty of an attack, the vulnerability still exists. I've got a lenovo that regularly sends out dhcp broadcasts, despite no dhcp code being on disk - it could just as easily call home with dns (sending recursive requests to the same ip as the last successful user initiated query). The only way to fix a ring -N rootkit is to remove ring -N.
> sends out dhcp broadcasts, despite no dhcp code being on disk
Woah, that's not just sitting there but actually actively doing stuff while bypassing your kernel. This sounds a lot more scary even though I know nothing about this Lenovo dhcp thing, observing it just makes it a lot more real to me.
Do you have any more information on this?
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#56I'm looking forward to this being complete: https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY%20Laptop/ Any ideas what a Chinese ARM chip might have for backdoors?
Anything.
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#57I've never heard of this before. This feels like science-fiction. You'd think this would have blown over the internet 50 times over? What can 'they' do with this?
It is like cell phone radios with DMA access. Anything they want, in practice. If you are buying any computer commercially it always has backdoored hardware with a wholly proprietary coprocessor with networking and memory access.
Can you please share links of evidence of this?
Thank you
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just be mindful of the fact that you've only increased the difficulty of an attack, the vulnerability still exists. I've got a lenovo that regularly sends out dhcp broadcasts, despite no dhcp code being on disk - it could just as easily call home with dns (sending recursive requests to the same ip as the last successful user initiated query). The only way to fix a ring -N rootkit is to remove ring -N.
> sends out dhcp broadcasts, despite no dhcp code being on disk Woah, that's not just sitting there but actually actively doing stuff while bypassing your kernel. This sounds a lot more scary even though I know nothing about this Lenovo dhcp thing, observing it just makes it a lot more real to me. Do you have any more information on this?
It has been several years since I dug into it, so I can really only offer keywords: AMT[0], which is a component within ME[1].
Also see https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5380_-_en_-_saal_2_-_201312291...
EDIT: I forgot to mention Computrace, the BIOS anti-theft service. IIRC that interacts with ME.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Techno...
[1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/misc-devices/mei/me...
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem to be solved here is not just software. How do you beat the economies of scale that standard designs have achieved? For most applications, the end user gets vastly more computing power per dollar spent when they buy an off the shelf design that's in large scale mass production. You could port BSD or Linux to your new architecture for a reasonable amount of money (though that's already an uphill battle sel…
The advantage Intel has built up is a tenuous one. They've had a lead in building up fabrication facilities for each new node. When we reach the final node - 5nm? whatever it is - the economies of scale will shift towards generic fabs. This will open the door to open designs such as RISC-V [0]. The future is looking bright for those who love freedom! [0] http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/design/the-death-of-...
Intel has a massive R&D budget. They'll probably be the first to achieve post-silicon tech if nothing dramatic happens. So the question is whether they'll be quick enough to innovate before generic chips eat their lunch.
Re: How to become the sole owner of your PC [pdf]
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
The advantage Intel has built up is a tenuous one. They've had a lead in building up fabrication facilities for each new node. When we reach the final node - 5nm? whatever it is - the economies of scale will shift towards generic fabs. This will open the door to open designs such as RISC-V [0]. The future is looking bright for those who love freedom! [0] http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/design/the-death-of-...
Intel has a massive R&D budget. They'll probably be the first to achieve post-silicon tech if nothing dramatic happens. So the question is whether they'll be quick enough to innovate before generic chips eat their lunch.
I don't doubt that they are a front-runner for post-silicon tech. The question is whether they'll be able to sustain exponential growth in performance. I have my doubts. Radical new technologies are far less predictable than iterative ones.