> Experienced people often forget the learning curve when they were themselves beginners, and at that time Rails was so attractive, so sexy. Remember that feeling? Of accomplishment in the face of the knowledge that some nice witch left super useful black magic behind? As one of those beginner programmers who had graduated from a development bootcamp, I fell in love with Sinatra much more than I did with Rails. Part…
Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
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Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#12Nice read. I understand the sentiment but I find the "win declaration" a bit too weird. How can one say "Rails won"? It's not like people will stop making web frameworks. Like any other software it will eventually be made obsolete by something newer and better. Maybe I am just nitpicking.
Yeah, I found that weird. However, if I think deeply about it, given the move to micro-services and soa type architectures I can see elixir winning longer term which is really railsy. regardless, rails has a ton of influence and some great usecases, but I would say nodejs is about as vogue as rails was and will dominate for another several years. as a nodejs dev, it is super annoying managing the asynchornicity of no…
Edit: I don't mean comparable as similar per se, but that one set are languages and the other are web frameworks
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#13Nice read. I understand the sentiment but I find the "win declaration" a bit too weird. How can one say "Rails won"? It's not like people will stop making web frameworks. Like any other software it will eventually be made obsolete by something newer and better. Maybe I am just nitpicking.
Yeah, I found that weird. However, if I think deeply about it, given the move to micro-services and soa type architectures I can see elixir winning longer term which is really railsy. regardless, rails has a ton of influence and some great usecases, but I would say nodejs is about as vogue as rails was and will dominate for another several years. as a nodejs dev, it is super annoying managing the asynchornicity of no…
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#14I haven't used rails in about 3 years (when I first started programming) and I only built 1 application which was a super shitty weekend instagram clone that didn't really work well. I didn't want to use rails anymore because it didn't feel like programming and nodeJS was getting hot. The thing is, I knew fuck all about programming then and now, I have the luxury of knowing very slightly less than fuck all. Which giv…
"Going away" was said about .NET and PHP and they don't seem to be going anywhere, albeit they are less popular than they use to be.
Too many discussions on HN have this paranoia lurking around of whether or not "I chose the right path". I find it unhealthy, and find that the longer life of a product exposes the weaknesses of any language/framework.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#15I haven't used rails in about 3 years (when I first started programming) and I only built 1 application which was a super shitty weekend instagram clone that didn't really work well. I didn't want to use rails anymore because it didn't feel like programming and nodeJS was getting hot. The thing is, I knew fuck all about programming then and now, I have the luxury of knowing very slightly less than fuck all. Which giv…
> I didn't want to use rails anymore because it didn't feel like programming and nodeJS was getting hot. > Wordpress is also something I swore off when I was learning because it straight up wasn't programming > Python: Data intensive applications & programming. I would love to hear your definition of programming.
Rails/Ruby was very popular bit it was a framework. You could do a massive amount with very little work. You could build an entire app without any knowledge of what Rails did for you under the hood. NodeJS was a developing technology of which I could gain massive leverage, both learning why asynchronous processes work(I still have trouble with these)/general programming concepts as well as double down on a front end language. The v8 compiler and ryan dahl seemed to provide a good avenue for which to learn lower level(at least than rails) about programming and it seemed to embody the unix philosophy. This seemed like a good place to be and I could grow within a community that was going to be influential. HTML, CSS and SCSS were pretty easy to learn, so by learning a single database technology and javascript I could be a full-stack developer. Not in the sense of how I would market myself, but that I could go out and build a full application if I wanted to and that was poweful and awesome from a learning experience. Given the proliferation of nosql The database, front-end, orm, and back-end were entirely javascript so I didn't pay a high context switching penalty.
wordpress: I dislike wordpress. I don't think it would make any sense to tell someone interested in programming front or back end software to learn "wordpress". Wordpress is a great convenience for setting up a blog, but I presume they have a CMS as well. I don't know much about it, only doing the most basic PHP stuff, but PHP & Wordpress seem to be synonymous with client facing software that requires a CMS/non-technical user to make updates.
python. I mean, python at least from my understanding is a great language for processing data. It is why tensorflow ships as a python library and numpy is used for a lot of data work. The communities using R and python work with data at scale and thus those communities have developed a lot of tooling to accomplish this, not that this stuff needs to be done in python, but machine learning, textual parsing and classification libraries and some NLP stuff all seem to hit python first. However, oython does have a great community writing secure applications. Django and Flask, sqlalchemy ORM as well as zeroDB exist and there are communities using python for apps, data parsing, and microservice deployments.
However, I define prgramming (like most people) as a schedule of television or radio broadcasts.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#16> Experienced people often forget the learning curve when they were themselves beginners, and at that time Rails was so attractive, so sexy. Remember that feeling? Of accomplishment in the face of the knowledge that some nice witch left super useful black magic behind? As one of those beginner programmers who had graduated from a development bootcamp, I fell in love with Sinatra much more than I did with Rails. Part…
I too like Sinatra but in my time writing Rails for both my day job(s) as well as various consulting gigs, I inevitably see Sinatra apps that start out with the best of intentions but always end up being just a shitty, hand-rolled version of Rails.
What is bloat, and what is a useful feature you haven't quite grown into yet, is all a matter of perspective.
I haven't yet found a project where you know 100% of what you're going to need upfront, so having a bit of depth in the toolbox is serving me well.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#17I haven't used rails in about 3 years (when I first started programming) and I only built 1 application which was a super shitty weekend instagram clone that didn't really work well. I didn't want to use rails anymore because it didn't feel like programming and nodeJS was getting hot. The thing is, I knew fuck all about programming then and now, I have the luxury of knowing very slightly less than fuck all. Which giv…
It sounds like you are just trying to justify your decision for Node. I use Node and Rails in production for different products/services. They both serve different purposes well. "Going away" was said about .NET and PHP and they don't seem to be going anywhere, albeit they are less popular than they use to be. Too many discussions on HN have this paranoia lurking around of whether or not "I chose the right path". I f…
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#18Here's a piece to deflate any ego issues http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#19I haven't used rails in about 3 years (when I first started programming) and I only built 1 application which was a super shitty weekend instagram clone that didn't really work well. I didn't want to use rails anymore because it didn't feel like programming and nodeJS was getting hot. The thing is, I knew fuck all about programming then and now, I have the luxury of knowing very slightly less than fuck all. Which giv…
It sounds like you are just trying to justify your decision for Node. I use Node and Rails in production for different products/services. They both serve different purposes well. "Going away" was said about .NET and PHP and they don't seem to be going anywhere, albeit they are less popular than they use to be. Too many discussions on HN have this paranoia lurking around of whether or not "I chose the right path". I f…
However, I totally agree that the longer life of a product exposes the weaknesses of any language/framework. and there are multiple paths. Just that, if you want to get good at writing software you probably need to pick a starter language with a versatile community. People still write cobol, and wherever there is code in production, there will be demand for a language, but .NET and PHP are probably not growing in demand. I actually don't know about .NET tbh.
However, there is such thing as choosing a path as, without extensive time investment, skill and knowledgebase, it would be difficult to be a truly capable python, .NET, javascript and rails dev.
It would be wise to be capable in those languages, but to be a master or attempt mastery of the one most likely to embody your interests/career would likely be a better move than being able to be less than mediocre in numerous languages. I think we are largely in agreement, and I hope I didn;t mischarachterize you.
I think rails is cool, and I now regret not learning it as I do like the scaffolding nature and I am sure I could pick it back up quickly, I just do not have a need to right now. Elixir looks super cool though and if I do learn a new language that is markedly different it is a toss up between Go and Elixir. I am messing around with python right now, but javascript and ruby are pretty similar, and pyton seems fairly similar. A functional language or a compiled language will be a radical departure from what I am used to.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#20Time waster:
Rails has won in the same way that PHP and .NET "won" in the 2000s. There are a lot of problems with Ruby, it's sort of this isolated language that's useful for Rails only, and I wonder if python and django don't offer a suitable replacement for 80% of cases where you can choose between hiring Rails and Django engineers.
Graphing "PHP", "Rails", and "Nodejs" on Google Trends makes Rails look like a fad and all the future money is going to be in maintenance work.
The article's weakness lies in the fact that it argues against the assertion that "Rails has these big problems, it's no longer the best approach", by instead arguing that "Rails is good enough most of the time" in a way that doesn't quite live up to the title.