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Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

the-japan-news.com

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Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#41

Post by nihonde »

burfog wrote: post #33
nihonde wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cookpad also seems to be a nice brain trust of capable coders. It's perplexing to me that Japan isn't better at software. It's practically nerd nation with tons of super talented designers. It feels like it should be easy to push Japan over the tipping point, but who knows why it hasn't happened yet.

Programming isn't just web sites and phone apps!!! Japan is the source of the world's most popular operating system, iTRON. Never heard of iTRON? Ah, well, it's probably in your microwave or anti-lock brakes or thermostat or coffeemaker or ...

I don't know anything about real-time embedded OSes, and I'm definitely interested in learning more. I found this so far: http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/itron.html

I have to say that the horrendous UI of Japanese consumer electronics in the 1980's and 90's seems quite closely linked to Japan's slide from the top of that market.

Seven years ago, when I first visited Japan, everyone used a clamshell phone with a godawful LCD interface. Today, everyone has an iPhone or iPhone clone (aka Korean or Chinese Android device). Even today, mobile carriers usually have a "Japanese Only" section on their website for the nationalists who insist on buying Japanese, and, sadly, those phones are very underwhelming by any reasonable standard in 2016.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#42

Post by eru »

quxbar wrote: post #23

Wow, in 20 years Japan will be producing some amazing technology. I think people underestimate how transformative an understanding of programmatic problem solving can be. I'd put it only slightly under literacy.

Alas, that doesn't mean that mandatory teaching will make people competent at it.

(We have pretty widespread teaching of programming in high schools in Germany. Doesn't help too much.)

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#43

Post by r0fls »

Olscore wrote: post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

You say you started learning at 9 -- I started much later and regret it -- why not get others started sooner?

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#44

Post by pessimizer »

That's much better than just assuming people are too stupid to know how things work and using that as an excuse to force immutable defaults on them that are favorable to our business model.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the average Japanese elementary school student will spend a significant amount of time over the next 60-110 years using computers (approximately 99.8% of their waking hours.)

When I was 8 in 1984, they didn't think we were too dumb to learn BASIC and Logo. I wonder what happened to make kids so stupid since then?

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#45

Post by Zakiazigazi »

quxbar wrote: post #23

Wow, in 20 years Japan will be producing some amazing technology. I think people underestimate how transformative an understanding of programmatic problem solving can be. I'd put it only slightly under literacy.

Considering how long English has been mandatory and what the average level of English proficiency actually is, it might be a little too early to be overly optimistic. The potential is there, but it will depend mostly on the execution and based on current experience I wouldn't expect too much.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#46

Post by ekianjo »

quxbar wrote: post #23

Wow, in 20 years Japan will be producing some amazing technology. I think people underestimate how transformative an understanding of programmatic problem solving can be. I'd put it only slightly under literacy.

We had mandatory programming in france 30 years ago it did not create a generation of little geniuses.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#47

Post by ekianjo »

itazula wrote: post #40

The value, I think, is that Japanese society as a whole will at least appreciate programming. Whether that appreciation is as a craft that is not always so easy, or as something that sometimes even approaches art, I do not know, but some of today's kids will be the ones who grow up to either approve or disapprove future projects. An understanding sown in youth and shared by a generation goes a long way.

Idont think it will make any difference at all. Do you think people have an appreciation for Geography or History even though they all had exposure to it during school? Most of the time it aint the case.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#48

Post by tdfx »

quxbar wrote: post #23

Wow, in 20 years Japan will be producing some amazing technology. I think people underestimate how transformative an understanding of programmatic problem solving can be. I'd put it only slightly under literacy.

I think it greatly depends on the comprehension level of the teachers. I can't imagine they're going to turn every teacher into a competent programmer overnight, nor will they lure an infinite number of competent programmers into the teaching profession.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#49

Post by eva1984 »

Olscore wrote: post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

So it math. Most find it boring, but some of them will eventually find their way back to it, and discover that they can be pretty good at it.

It is not going to be work for everyone, but will definitely attract more people to this area.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#50

Post by wingerlang »

zygomega wrote: post #31

I wish 'programming' included teaching our kids how to be proficient users of technology. How to effectively google, how to bring up a terminal, ssh to another machine, how to secure your privacy are the type of skills I hope are included in this definition. The architectural and process engineering aspects of programming are better left to learn in adulthood.

> How to effectively google

Sounds good

> how to bring up a terminal, ssh to another machine

Uhh, even as a developer I barely ever feel I need to do this (and frankly, I do this quite often).

Being able to ssh into another machine is extremely low on the list of things to learn before being proficient.

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