I wish 'programming' included teaching our kids how to be proficient users of technology. How to effectively google, how to bring up a terminal, ssh to another machine, how to secure your privacy are the type of skills I hope are included in this definition.
The architectural and process engineering aspects of programming are better left to learn in adulthood.
Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
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Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#32Anyone have any thoughts as to why they would take the bottom up approach (ie, start with elementary and go up) rather than top down?
Keep in mind that elementary school kids in Japan also attend evening "cram" schools, where they drill on the subjects on the curriculum. I wouldn't be surprised if the real learning happens at Kumon, etc. By the time they're in high school, it seems like it's all about passing tests and getting into college, but I never went to Japanese school, so my perspective could be totally wrong.
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Point taken, but to clarify I was saying "plot a way forward for Japan to become a tech powerhouse, when a company like Rakuten is about the pinnacle of what they can achieve as far as technology companies go". And you can't really just say "they can do X, Y, and Z" if X, Y, and Z are things that are totally unrealistic to expect Japan corporate culture to do. Even Rakuten is considered "weird" to the point of aposta…
Cookpad also seems to be a nice brain trust of capable coders. It's perplexing to me that Japan isn't better at software. It's practically nerd nation with tons of super talented designers. It feels like it should be easy to push Japan over the tipping point, but who knows why it hasn't happened yet.
Programming isn't just web sites and phone apps!!!
Japan is the source of the world's most popular operating system, iTRON. Never heard of iTRON? Ah, well, it's probably in your microwave or anti-lock brakes or thermostat or coffeemaker or ...
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#34Same with teaching French, Piano, Recorder, Photography. It will give people some exposure to something new. Most won't be interested, but a few would have discovered their passion.
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#35It's going to be butchered like English class to point of utter uselessness, no? It's like learning Spanish and then totally and utterly forgetting it. What is then, the leftover value after one finish his secondary education?
It's like learning Spanish and then totally and utterly forgetting it. What is then, the leftover value after one finish his secondary education? I'm not sure that's true. Programming intrinsically requires logical thinking and problem-solving. So it has the potential to shape young brains and teach them cognitive skills that will stay with them for the long-term, whether or not they remember certain techniques or la…
Oh man it makes my heart ache to read what you wrote here.
> Programming intrinsically requires logical thinking and problem solving.
Doesn't everything that schools break down into rote steps to be followed dogmatically without understanding? From writing to your example math, there is nothing that inherently challenging interesting and enjoyable that a teacher can't turn into a mind-numbing chore.
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#36Wow, in 20 years Japan will be producing some amazing technology. I think people underestimate how transformative an understanding of programmatic problem solving can be. I'd put it only slightly under literacy.
Countries like Israel and Estonia are doing something similar. Meanwhile in the US we are teaching only 10% of our schoolchildren how to code. It will be interesting to see what these countries will be producing in 20 years; but, what I am more worried about if the US will still have its technological prowess.
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#37This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.
The first 'code' I wrote was probably logo writer (turtles!) In kindergarten. It was fun. Then we did HyperCard and built all sorts of fun interactive designs.
Tldr: if kids can do art class, they can program and have fun doing it.
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#38This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.
I think programming coupled with mathematics has nothing but positive results. Code affects most of our environment and it will dominate every aspect of it in the near future. Knowing how things work and how to alter them is incentive enough from my point of view. You can make things fun like creating or changing game mechanics and kids will love it. Coding involves a lot of logic and that brings a positive effect on how they will think and take decisions later in life. Much like playing chess as a kid which shaped my mind to think more thoroughly.
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#39Maybe they should also find something for those programmers to do as well, while they're at it. The job market for software engineering in Tokyo is equivalent to a Minneapolis or an Atlanta even with 20x the population - and even then I might be overselling it. Look at the culture and the accomplishments of a place like Rakuten, and plot a way forward from that to a tech powerhouse. I don't see it.
Only 11% of Japan lives in Tokyo, so who cares? It's overpriced anyway. Japan obviously can find a use for software developers. Japan launches spacecraft, has 2 of the 3 major video game console companies, is well-known as a major place for robotics, has major car companies, and has started to get back into military equipment. Programming isn't all about web sites and phone apps.
Tokyo metro is like a quarter of the population of Japan. Japan basically is Tokyo, to a degree that probably isn't matched by any other city / nation on Earth. Even if you insist on just looking at the 23 wards it's a big deal - 7% of the population lives in one of the 23 wards. That's like if 22 million people lived just within the one of the five boroughs of New York. (Comparing Tokyo metro with New York/Newark metro, imagine if 80 million people lived there, and how that would affect the influence of that area on the economy of the US.)
To suppose that Tokyo can go in one direction or stagnate while the rest of the country goes in another direction and prospers is just totally unrealistic.
Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools
#40The value, I think, is that Japanese society as a whole will at least appreciate programming. Whether that appreciation is as a craft that is not always so easy, or as something that sometimes even approaches art, I do not know, but some of today's kids will be the ones who grow up to either approve or disapprove future projects. An understanding sown in youth and shared by a generation goes a long way.