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Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

the-japan-news.com

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Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#21

Post by nihonde »

deciplex wrote: post #13
rtpg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see what you're getting at. Yeah, the salaries are depressed, but all salaries in Tokyo are depressed, it's part of a general trend. And Rakuten does a lot of stuff. There are also places like GMO that do things. This is kind of like complaining that Ebay isn't a tech powerhouse. That's totally fine

Point taken, but to clarify I was saying "plot a way forward for Japan to become a tech powerhouse, when a company like Rakuten is about the pinnacle of what they can achieve as far as technology companies go". And you can't really just say "they can do X, Y, and Z" if X, Y, and Z are things that are totally unrealistic to expect Japan corporate culture to do. Even Rakuten is considered "weird" to the point of aposta…

Cookpad also seems to be a nice brain trust of capable coders. It's perplexing to me that Japan isn't better at software. It's practically nerd nation with tons of super talented designers. It feels like it should be easy to push Japan over the tipping point, but who knows why it hasn't happened yet.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#22

Post by sotojuan »

Olscore wrote: post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

You can apply this logic to almost all subjects in school aside from the very basic ones (math, reading/writing) and even then you can argue school need not be teaching at a high level.

> I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

We shove kids into biology, chemistry, physics, literature, art, etc. The ones that like it will make it their career or college major. The ones that don't will forget and throw away their notes after the final. The same will happen with programming classes.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#24

Post by fatman13gg »

kiba wrote: post #12

It's going to be butchered like English class to point of utter uselessness, no? It's like learning Spanish and then totally and utterly forgetting it. What is then, the leftover value after one finish his secondary education?

Then what is point of, say, Math class? You still remember much of the Math formula?

Personally, I think in this information age Programming is a much relevant subject to be taught in school than traditional ones like Math, Chemistry, Physics and etc.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#26

Post by gjolund »

quxbar wrote: post #23

Wow, in 20 years Japan will be producing some amazing technology. I think people underestimate how transformative an understanding of programmatic problem solving can be. I'd put it only slightly under literacy.

I would put it on the same level as literacy and basic arithmetic.

It exposes you to entirely know ways to solve problems, a basic understanding of computer science on a societal level would be amazing.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#27

Post by nihonde »

Olscore wrote: post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

You make a great point. My experience was the opposite. I desperately wanted to learn more about programming in junior high school, but the math teachers locked all the interesting computers up in their office and really didn't know much about them anyway. This was in the 1980's. Back then, computers were very tightly coupled with math and science, which was incredibly limiting for someone like me who didn't excel in those areas but was totally obsessed with computers. I remember I used to write BASIC programs in a notepad with a pencil! I eventually taught myself Pascal and C at home. I remember showing a math teacher at my high school a program that solved every problem on our homework assignments for the semester. She gave me a C because she couldn't see my work.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#28

Post by burfog »

deciplex wrote: post #4

Maybe they should also find something for those programmers to do as well, while they're at it. The job market for software engineering in Tokyo is equivalent to a Minneapolis or an Atlanta even with 20x the population - and even then I might be overselling it. Look at the culture and the accomplishments of a place like Rakuten, and plot a way forward from that to a tech powerhouse. I don't see it.

Only 11% of Japan lives in Tokyo, so who cares? It's overpriced anyway.

Japan obviously can find a use for software developers. Japan launches spacecraft, has 2 of the 3 major video game console companies, is well-known as a major place for robotics, has major car companies, and has started to get back into military equipment.

Programming isn't all about web sites and phone apps.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#29

Post by kendallpark »

It will be interesting to see what kind of effect this will have on their society and industry. I know everyone has their anecdotal opinion as to whether this a good or bad idea, but we really won't know until a decade or so has passed.

I'm interested to see whether the gender ratio of programmers will change at all.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#30

Post by kiba »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #20
kiba wrote: post #12

It's going to be butchered like English class to point of utter uselessness, no? It's like learning Spanish and then totally and utterly forgetting it. What is then, the leftover value after one finish his secondary education?

I used to think English was useless too until I had to read other people's documentation. The world would be a better place if smart programmers were also competent at writing documentation and comments. I've seen crazy things like punctuation placed in the middle of a sentence. I had to ask, "Is this one sentence or two?" People not using appropriate paragraphs, no headings, rambling sentences etc ... A little bit o…

I didn't say English is a useless language.

It's a very useful language, but I doubt a Japanese classroom is a good place to become a good English speaker and user.

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