Corp: "We only hire the very best" Programmer: "What's the salary?" Corp: "Market average. Also, we're looking for people who aren't just motivated by money"
With a typical side dish of substandard working conditions (open office, cheap chairs, no parking or no transit or even "better" none of both), substandard tools, substandard personnel policies (vacation, insurance, 401K, etc) and last but not least a very low "Joel Test" score preferably zero. I'm sure the best will be naturally attracted to that. Sorta an "opposites attract" strategy. There are historical analogies…
We Only Hire the Best
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Re: We Only Hire the Best
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
>If the mission is feeding starving children, or curing cancer, or public service You're typically expected to take a pay cut if you're doing any of these.
Public service pay cuts? Not really. This is for CA, but other states are not too far off. http://publicpay.ca.gov/ And don't forget life-long pensions at 80% salary. How many distinguished engineers make anywhere close to these amounts (whether public or private)? Close to zero.
Re: We Only Hire the Best
#83One other aspect of "we only hire the best" that wasn't explored by this article is the practice -- especially common among unicorn companies -- of purposely casting a far wider net than needed, so that their hiring yield on applicants is dauntingly low. The recruiting process is deliberately set up to yield a lot of false negatives -- i.e., applicants who are qualified on both skill and fit who are rejected for some…
Re: We Only Hire the Best
#84https://blog.codinghorror.com/we-hire-the-best-just-like-eve... (discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11223316 ) http://danluu.com/programmer-moneyball/ (discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11326940 )
I also really liked the post he did about discrimination in tech:
Re: We Only Hire the Best
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
>If the mission is feeding starving children, or curing cancer, or public service You're typically expected to take a pay cut if you're doing any of these.
Public service pay cuts? Not really. This is for CA, but other states are not too far off. http://publicpay.ca.gov/ And don't forget life-long pensions at 80% salary. How many distinguished engineers make anywhere close to these amounts (whether public or private)? Close to zero.
Re: We Only Hire the Best
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see a similar effect that drives me nuts: Corp: "We only hire the best, but we can't find any good people. There must be an industry shortage of good engineers!" Me: "What about $candidate that we interviewed last week, I thought you liked him?" Corp: "He was great! But he wanted too much money" Me: "..."
And almost always these places pay their conference-calling-bullshitters top dollar. But it's like the apocalypse if you try to get more money for the people that actually do things.
Salespeople "actually do things". The problems come when you make a stupid compensation plan or don't fire the ones who consistently underperform.
Re: We Only Hire the Best
#87Corp: "We only hire the very best" Programmer: "What's the salary?" Corp: "Market average. Also, we're looking for people who aren't just motivated by money"
Did we mention the perks like our "unlimited vacation policy"?
Re: We Only Hire the Best
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I must suck then because there aren't companies lining up to just hand me a job like Joel says happens to all good developers. I have to hustle in order to keep food and a roof.
Don't worry. I'm sucking right there along side you. 3.5 years experience and I'm not even getting recruiter spam in the volume some of the people here are. :P
Re: We Only Hire the Best
#89Re: We Only Hire the Best
#90This "salary cut" works only in this case: The employee is not just looking for money but something intangible from the job (Experience/network/etc.) This doesn't apply to most of you guys who have no intention to start a company or make a huge leap in life. That's why you think it's bullshit. But there are also a small number of people who are really not driven by just money but puts a lot of value on the intangibles I mentioned above.
Many startups look for these types of people, so to those of you who are hating on this idea: there's nothing wrong with you hating on them. It's by design, these companies don't want you either. I know from experience because I've hired people who just got in without any specific reason. These people tend to give up very soon because they simply don't care about what they're building. And again, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that these startups can't afford to hire you.
Here's my horror story: I was working on a startup. We were fortunate to have a guy who's extremely talented and wrote the core part of our product. However he switched ship immediately when he realized it was a business that will take time to mature. I really hated that guy for a while because we had to basically abandon our core product the day he just left. Now I understand and also know that part of it was my fault too, but it was a very difficult experience for me. If you look at the world with this lens you'll notice so many "rockstar developers" jumping ship after another when things don't go well for the company (which is totally fine for them but bad for the company). That's why startup companies should care more about the "right match" than "rockstar developers". And hiring a rockstar developer by paying him tons of money when he's not so passionate about the company's vision is the worst thing you can do.
An analogy is most girls who don't want guys who are just in it for her looks. When you try to seduce a girl, complementing her looks rarely works unless your social status is extremely obviously high or if your looks are extremely great. In most cases you have to demonstrate that you like her not just for her looks but because of her personality. Most girls don't want a guy to just have fun for one night, never to see again, especially if they like them. I know many girls who gave up on a guy she really liked because she didn't want to be hurt. Startups are like that.