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Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

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Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#231

Post by Veratyr »

shmerl wrote: post #227
Veratyr wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple are being sleazy and refuse to support free codecs like VP9 and Opus. > May be Daala / Thor will eventually break their nasty behavior, especially if it will be adopted as mandatory for WebRTC. I think AV1 (Alliance for Open Media's codec) is likely to be the video codec Apple joins in on, unless it tries to push HEVC. With Intel, AMD and ARM in the group, basically every computing device is going to have har…

>Alliance for Open Media AV1 is the new codename for Daala + Thor? They used to call it NetVC. I hope they'll come up with better name than something that sounds like a virus :) > As for audio, Opus is great for low latency and low bitrate but AAC is widely available and supported and performs better than Opus at high bitrates Opus beats AAC even for music from what I saw and provides same quality at lower bitrates.…

> AV1 is the new codename for Daala + Thor?

No, AV1 is the name of the codec the Alliance for Open Media is producing. The Alliance for Open Media is a coalition formed by Amazon, AMD, ARM, Cisco, Google, Intel, Ittiam, Microsoft, Mozilla, Netflix and NVIDIA [0]. I don't believe Daala is involved.

> Opus beats AAC even for music from what I saw and provides same quality at lower bitrates.

That test notably omits the proprietary Fraunhofer AAC codec, which may outperform the others.

It also produces results differing from the SoundExpert ratings [1], which show Opus and AAC both achieving transparency around 128K, but with AAC doing it by a more comfortable margin.

> Plus AAC is not free.

Freedom isn't relevant to what will be adopted. The parties in control aren't motivated by freedom.

[0]: http://aomedia.org/about-us/

[1]: http://soundexpert.org/encoders

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#232

Post by yoz-y »

frozenport wrote: post #229
MrZongle2 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true. But they are in a position of incredible power. They have control over a lot of what people see online, by virtue of controlling what people find when they search. They're so ingrained in society that they're a verb . Their staff have had remarkable access to the White House and other government institutions. No, not a monopoly...but they're not far from potentially becoming one.

On search they are a monopoly, what if they said Google Search will only run on Chrome?

At minimum European Union would fine them an absurd sum that they would probably refuse to pay. Then the US government would do the same.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#233

Post by [deleted] »

frozenport wrote: post #229
MrZongle2 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true. But they are in a position of incredible power. They have control over a lot of what people see online, by virtue of controlling what people find when they search. They're so ingrained in society that they're a verb . Their staff have had remarkable access to the White House and other government institutions. No, not a monopoly...but they're not far from potentially becoming one.

On search they are a monopoly, what if they said Google Search will only run on Chrome?

[deleted]

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#234

Post by shmerl »

Veratyr wrote: post #231
shmerl wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Alliance for Open Media AV1 is the new codename for Daala + Thor? They used to call it NetVC. I hope they'll come up with better name than something that sounds like a virus :) > As for audio, Opus is great for low latency and low bitrate but AAC is widely available and supported and performs better than Opus at high bitrates Opus beats AAC even for music from what I saw and provides same quality at lower bitrates.…

> AV1 is the new codename for Daala + Thor? No, AV1 is the name of the codec the Alliance for Open Media is producing. The Alliance for Open Media is a coalition formed by Amazon, AMD, ARM, Cisco, Google, Intel, Ittiam, Microsoft, Mozilla, Netflix and NVIDIA [0]. I don't believe Daala is involved. > Opus beats AAC even for music from what I saw and provides same quality at lower bitrates. That test notably omits the…

> Freedom isn't relevant to what will be adopted. The parties in control aren't motivated by freedom.

Oh, they are. It's only the matter of scale and who owns the non-free options. If those who have adopt some codecs need to pay tons of money for non-free ones they start caring about freedom quite a bit ;)

That's exactly why HEVC shot itself in the foot and will eventually die miserably.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#235

Post by _puk »

nacs wrote: post #221
_puk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DASH is adaptive streaming, and as such, when you select some stream from the client, CDN should support that in their infrastructure Adaptive streaming is essentially a client side technology, all the CDN needs to do is ensure that it serves up files with the right mime type (not actually a hard requirement, but many players choke if you don't). Which segment to play next is decided by the player based on current…

> in theory you can use DASH with existing HLS segments (MPEG-2 .ts files), but no-one supports it (or likely ever will) Twitch.tv does exactly that for their non-Flash streaming (MPEG2 .ts files delivered in pieces).

Good to know!

Twitch definitely offers HLS as well; it makes sense to support the current generation of devices, but re-use the tech stack for future standards. Clever peeps.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#236

Post by _puk »

shmerl wrote: post #222
nacs wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in theory you can use DASH with existing HLS segments (MPEG-2 .ts files), but no-one supports it (or likely ever will) Twitch.tv does exactly that for their non-Flash streaming (MPEG2 .ts files delivered in pieces).

Why doesn't Twitch work in Firefox without Flash?

Wouldn't be surprised if Firefox doesn't have all the relevant hardware decode licences (MPEG-2 in this instance).

For a lot of codec related items support is dependent on the underlying OS, and I don't think Windows ships with a general MPEG-2 licence.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#237

Post by shmerl »

_puk wrote: post #236
shmerl wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn't Twitch work in Firefox without Flash?

Wouldn't be surprised if Firefox doesn't have all the relevant hardware decode licences (MPEG-2 in this instance). For a lot of codec related items support is dependent on the underlying OS, and I don't think Windows ships with a general MPEG-2 licence.

So again, it's about Apple being jerks and not supporting free codecs. However ffmpeg can decode it, and Firefox relies on it now.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#238

Post by tudorw »

tudorw wrote: post #194
flyinghamster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could this be IPv6-related? I've run my own server for a long time, but when I spun up a new VPS and enabled IPv6, I suddenly couldn't send mail to Comcast customers. It seems that the single default IPv6 address fell into a privately-blacklisted /64. I was able to work around it by firewalling Comcast's IPv6 MX hosts, but getting my own /64 was the real fix. On the other hand, I don't know anyone with an @some-micro…

thanks for the thought, I'll check but pretty sure I', stil on IPv4, 6 not enabled, maybe I'll try enabling it, or burning some sort of effigy, http://www.mail-tester.com/ is the link I intended.

Okay, jumped some hoops for m$ to try and get my email working, but no joy, sender.office.com reports the IP is not blocked and suggests I refer to bounce error (there is no bounced message), I tried the Outlook mitigation route, and after 24 hours received a "Not qualified for mitigation ... Our investigation has determined that the above IP(s) do not qualify for mitigation." message (my stars). Today I've joined the Microsoft Smart Network Data service, and that reports the IP of the mailserver as having normal service, so where now ? PM Bill?

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#239

Post by tudorw »

tudorw wrote: post #195
wjoe wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do maintain their own blacklist, which doesn't seem to be listed on any of the public monitors. When I had this issue it did give a helpful bounce message: Client host blocked using FBLW15; To request removal from this list please forward this message to delist@messaging.microsoft.com (in reply to RCPT TO command) I did as it said and forwarded the message to that address, and got an automated reply and my IP re…

thanks, will do

see notes above, no joy :(

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#240

Post by pbtflakes »

hsivonen wrote: post #79
macspoofing wrote: post #65

What bugs me is that Google gave itself a pass by white-listing YouTube - because it turns out some people still need Flash on YouTube. Google should dog-food their own policies.

Are there parts of YouTube that require Flash in Chrome other than legacy embeds on non-YouTube sites that enable the embedding page to script the Flash embed via a JS API?

From what I recall, videos that are long enough (such as NASCAR replays) require the flash player.
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