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India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

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Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#21

My suggestion to India: focus on encouraging the would-be Elon Musks in your population. Give them permission to do it. Remove the barriers to them doing it. You'll get there much faster if the private sector were doing it.

Wow -- people are downvoting such basic commonsense.

The fact of the matter is, space has only really become feasible for the private sector in the last few decades in the US and a few other countries. The overriding reason for this has been large government funded research programs funding the sunk cost initial R&D for the private sector. A secondary reason is the now widespread usage of commercial satellites. Countries with private space companies also have long-standing aeronautical engineering companies.

India lacks all of these things. Shifting all of the space program to private companies would be a disaster there.

Companies rarely finance scientific endeavors because the payout on them is too long - and many pure science efforts like landing on Europa offer no possible payback plan. Science in space cannot exist without government largess.

Also, one of the primary reasons for space research has historically been weapons deployment (ICBM). Private firms are not going to fund that sort of development - unless the government pays them to do so.

I am tired of people applying a free market rant to everything they run into. Any economist will tell you that the "free market" only really applies in very particular markets (perfect competition), and even those have a common trade/law/infrastructure system established by a government. Space is actually better suited to oligopolies, which are almost as far away from a free market as possible and practically dictate a need for regulation.

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#22
post #3

It's launched already, deemed successful. http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/india-successfully-...

Such a poorly worded article, replete with grammatical errors. No close-up pictures of the "shuttle." Strange. (And I'm not talking about a generic long range picture of a rocket taking off either.) The episode has the smell of government propaganda.

I don't understand the downvotes. There's always a place for contrasting opinions, and /especially/ when they're expressed politely, they deserve a polite response.

I have the same doubts. I'd love to see a picture of the real thing.

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#23
post #12
post #3

It's launched already, deemed successful. http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/india-successfully-...

From the article: "Scientists at ISRO believe that they could reduce the cost by as much as 10 times if reusable technology succeeds, bringing it down to $2,000 per kg." Wow! That's extremely cheap! What are SpaceX's expected numbers?

SpaceX's current price for the Falcon Heavy is already below $2k/kg

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#24
post #12
post #3

It's launched already, deemed successful. http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/india-successfully-...

From the article: "Scientists at ISRO believe that they could reduce the cost by as much as 10 times if reusable technology succeeds, bringing it down to $2,000 per kg." Wow! That's extremely cheap! What are SpaceX's expected numbers?

"The Falcon Heavy, aims to lower the cost to $1,000 per pound [or $2,204.62 per kg]." (old article) [0]

However, the pricing page for SpaceX shows the Falcon Heavy runs $90 Million USD for a launch of 54,400 kg to LEO (on a fully expendable vehicle, so no refunds). That works out to be $1,654 per kg (or $750 per pound, under their original estimate). Reusing the first stage rockets reduces the lift profile but the costs are projected to be about 2/3 of their original value, so I'd suspect the overall cost to be even lower - around $1,300/kg or so.

[Edit] Elon Musk is on record as saying his ultimate goal is $100 per pound, or $254/kg. That presumes daily flights.[2] In a Senate meeting in 2004 he said, "Ultimately, I believe $500 per pound [$1,270 per kg] or less is very achievable."[3] Depending on discounts on the Falcon Heavy, SpaceX is sitting around that cost level.

[0] http://www.airspacemag.com/space/is-spacex-changing-the-rock...

[1] http://www.spacex.com/about/capabilities

[2] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/07/21/138166072/space...

[3]http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=12774

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#25
post #19

"The final version will take at least 10-15 years to get ready." This was at the bottom of the Hindu article. How does this compare with SpaceX and Blue Origin's timelines ?

They're probably not trying to compete in the global market for space launches as much as simply reduce costs for the Indian national space program. Most people often forget that SpaceX is a US company, and hence the services it supplies are subject to US laws, specifically, export restrictions and sanctions.

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#26

Some news outlets have been calling it a "space shuttle", which is highly inaccurate considering that this has no plans of being for human use. I'm happy with the progress ISRO has made but lying/deception will not help anybody.

http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/isro-rlv...

"The hypersonic flight experiment (HEX) will be followed by the landing experiment (LEX), return flight experiment (REX) and scramjet propulsion experiment (SPEX)."

Notice - scramjet. I think it isn't reusable space program like SpaceX's. It is more of an advanced tech development program with "spaceplane" being a goal. Dovetails nicely with the current active development of 7Mach Russian-Indian scramjet missile BraMos 2.

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#27
post #19

"The final version will take at least 10-15 years to get ready." This was at the bottom of the Hindu article. How does this compare with SpaceX and Blue Origin's timelines ?

SpaceX is within 1-2 years of the Falcon Heavy; same timeline for the Dragon 2 capsule (reusable) for carrying humans into and out of space. Blue Origin's timeline to orbit is a quite a bit longer and filled with a lot more question marks.

With that said, there is value for India in having their own cheap space launch system which can't be blocked off by the US on a whim.

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#28

Some news outlets have been calling it a "space shuttle", which is highly inaccurate considering that this has no plans of being for human use. I'm happy with the progress ISRO has made but lying/deception will not help anybody.

It could be just ignorance. I would bet that the journalist thought that space shuttle is a fancy word for rocket.

Re: India is set to launch a scale model of a reusable spacecraft on Monday

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a poorly worded article, replete with grammatical errors. No close-up pictures of the "shuttle." Strange. (And I'm not talking about a generic long range picture of a rocket taking off either.) The episode has the smell of government propaganda.

I don't understand the downvotes. There's always a place for contrasting opinions, and /especially/ when they're expressed politely, they deserve a polite response. I have the same doubts. I'd love to see a picture of the real thing.

How to downvote. I am not able to see the downvote option in the comment section.
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