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Hiroshima (1946)

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Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#111

Post by joshfraser »

badminton1 wrote: post #59

There are many views on the bombing. The difference is that Americans do not hide it. It's controversial, but people know about it. Same with Germans. People know about how the Germans behaved in WW2, they're not proud about it, it's learned in schools, and they do not hide it. Japan on the other side, actively hide their actions. Japanese schools present a revisionist version of history in which all their horrible a…

When I visited the peace museum in Hiroshima, I was surprised by how honest the exhibits were about admitting their own ugly history that led up to the bomb. I was shocked by the forgiveness of the Japanese people. Some survivors actually work in the museum and greet visitors coming through. The peace museum is one of the most emotional places I've ever visited and it leaves such a vivid picture of the human cost of war.

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#112

Post by e12e »

JshWright wrote: post #65
e12e wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

August 6th, 1945: bombing of Hiroshima August 9th, bombing of Nagasaki August 15th, Japan surrenders. One could note that the two bombs were of different design, that both were tested on real cities and real human beings. As for whether or not Soviet or the bombs won the war - or if the bombs made much difference that waiting would not have; it's hard to judge. Here's one take on it: http://archive.boston.com/bostong…

I'm still confused by what you meant by "a few days later". The parent comment didn't mention any event for you to be basing your timeline on.

I think the poster meant that first [many] were killed in Hiroshima; and even if that was justified - would that justification apply to dropping another nuclear bomb on Nagasaki [a few days later]?

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#113

Post by badminton1 »

doall wrote: post #90
badminton1 wrote: post #59

There are many views on the bombing. The difference is that Americans do not hide it. It's controversial, but people know about it. Same with Germans. People know about how the Germans behaved in WW2, they're not proud about it, it's learned in schools, and they do not hide it. Japan on the other side, actively hide their actions. Japanese schools present a revisionist version of history in which all their horrible a…

It's not that Japanese people are hiding their history. If there are clear evidences that are not flawed and could not be denied, they will not deny, but admit and apologize. For example, there was the famous Korean sexual slavery issue coined by Seiji Yoshida that later he and Asahi Shimbun admitted it was a complete fiction. This revealed that the comfort women issue was not about slavery but prostitution. Why do y…

https://sfi.usc.edu/news/2016/05/11436-japanese-activist-tam...

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#114

Post by krapp »

nihonde wrote: post #67
badminton1 wrote: post #59

There are many views on the bombing. The difference is that Americans do not hide it. It's controversial, but people know about it. Same with Germans. People know about how the Germans behaved in WW2, they're not proud about it, it's learned in schools, and they do not hide it. Japan on the other side, actively hide their actions. Japanese schools present a revisionist version of history in which all their horrible a…

For the record, this doesn't reflect my personal experience in Japan in any way whatsoever. People here are quite well aware of their history, but they don't understand some people's focus on Japan's most recent expansion into China and Korea any more than Americans would understand someone whose sole concern is the eradication of native Americans. This kind of "they're not sorry enough for me" discussion is fruitles…

>Meanwhile, to my point above, America does nothing but wage wars since WW2. Make of that what you will.

America is the reason Japan is pacifist. America forced Japan to become pacifist at the point of (quite a few) guns. While it's wonderful that the Japanese people have embraced pacifism culturally, their country's pacifist stance is nonetheless paid for with the obligation of American military violence.

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#115

Post by sukilot »

Retric wrote: post #31
Scirra_Tom wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think many people doubt that a land invasion to the bitter end would kill more people than dropping the bombs, but the argument is was the bomb necessary? Some higher ups in the military at the time thought Japan was on the brink of total surrender. "...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." - DWIGHT EISENHOWER (in 1963) "It is my opinion that the use…

Remember, on an average week in WWII more civilians died than from either of the bomb blasts. Together they might have equaled an average week, but probably not. That's the scale we are talking about. The month was likely below average for the war. So, it's not just a question of would we have invaded, but just how many days it shortens the war. Further, it is likely more people died in Tokyo than either of those cit…

By the time the bombs were dropped, the ear in Europe was over. The weekly death toll was much lower than average by then .

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#116

Post by sandworm101 »

WWII is falling out of living memory very quickly. It should be of no surprise that it is becoming every more glorified. Europe is shifting dangerously to the right. The US is about to elect a hawk (both of them are hawks). An Asian nation (this time China) is talking expansion, in influence if not in literal territory. The western world is split on the issue of migrants fleeing local conflicts. And everyone talks of tightening boards. All the ducks are lining up nicely for the day we forget the lesson.

There is only so much room in Canada.

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#117

Post by dmfdmf »

krapp wrote: post #103
dmfdmf wrote: post #84

I have no problem with America bombing Japan with nuclear weapons. They (and Germany) deserved what they got, they started a world war and we finished it. All this American angst and apologia is coming from the anti-American intellectuals in the US. They have been spreading their propaganda unopposed for decades. The US is NOT GUILTY and owes no apologies whatsoever, Obama's pathetic mea culpa trip to Japan notwithst…

You're accusing others of propaganda while trotting out the old right-wing hobbyhorses of "anti-American intellectualism" and Obama apologizing for American foreign policy. Your claim that he's making a "pathetic mea culpa trip to Japan," despite the White House having stated clearly that he doesn't intend to apologize for the bombings when the visits Hiroshoma, is itself propaganda. As has been mentioned elsewhere,…

Do you mean the same anti-intellectual "right-wing" who thinks the USA should be a faith-based, Christian nation? You have me confused with somebody else and need to consider the fact that both the left and right are wrong.

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#118

Post by bluejekyll »

sukilot wrote: post #100
bluejekyll wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, this is a question I struggle with. The the atomic bombs did what they were meant to, a swift end to the war with a full capitulation by the Japanese, before the Russians were able to mount an invasion of their own. This is generally forgiven because it in theory saved the lives of American soldiers who would have had a hard fight to take Japan. But all of this was done, and with an understanding that…

You never noticed the opposition to the Vietnamese war? It is the primary cultural feature of the 1960s-1970s, and then in movies through the 1980s

I should be more clear, there are many idividuals in the US who believe these actions were wrong, but the government continues to report civilian deaths as irreleveant in most cases.

Also, I'd say those movies you're referring to were much more from the perspective of the unjustly forced into war soldier, than the plight of the Vietnamese.

I was not alive then, my knowledge of Vietnam is all books and information from my parents and friend's parents.

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#119

Post by krapp »

dmfdmf wrote: post #117
krapp wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're accusing others of propaganda while trotting out the old right-wing hobbyhorses of "anti-American intellectualism" and Obama apologizing for American foreign policy. Your claim that he's making a "pathetic mea culpa trip to Japan," despite the White House having stated clearly that he doesn't intend to apologize for the bombings when the visits Hiroshoma, is itself propaganda. As has been mentioned elsewhere,…

Do you mean the same anti-intellectual "right-wing" who thinks the USA should be a faith-based, Christian nation? You have me confused with somebody else and need to consider the fact that both the left and right are wrong.

I do consider them both wrong, but it's nevertheless the case that the bogeymen of "anti-American intellectuals" and Obama's international "apologies" have been props of the right for years. If you don't share their views, maybe don't repeat their arguments or prop up their strawmen.

Re: Hiroshima (1946)

#120

Post by homero »

sandworm101 wrote: post #116

WWII is falling out of living memory very quickly. It should be of no surprise that it is becoming every more glorified. Europe is shifting dangerously to the right. The US is about to elect a hawk (both of them are hawks). An Asian nation (this time China) is talking expansion, in influence if not in literal territory. The western world is split on the issue of migrants fleeing local conflicts. And everyone talks of…

Africa is back as a colony of China this time
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