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Top developers can have a life outside coding

belenalbeza.com

191–200 of 241 posts

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#191

I'd make a stronger assertion: top developers do have a life outside coding. My experience is that people who stay until 9 writing code because they're "passionate" write a lot of code and implement a lot of features for a while, but the quality of the code is low because they're always tired when writing it. And after a year or so, a combination of burnout and the unmaintainability of their code forces them to quit,…

Further, I'd say most of the evidence indicates this. A sampling of it follows. We know regular sleep improves quality of life and thinking. We also know many people who don't have it think that's not true but prove otherwise in tests. ;) Quiet office vs cubicle research long ago showed being able to focus with minimal interruptions improved productivity. A person with friends and family trying to code nonstop will b…

I work from home whereas before I worked in an open plan office. As a developer. I do less hours now at home, but I only work the productive hours. If I'm not 'feeling it' I do something else, I don't have to sit there looking like I'm working, theres no-one watching me and judging me. I don't sit there until I get bored in that state to the extent I'll churn out code with a fuzzy head and so create inefficient inelegant code.

If coding is all you do, I guarantee you're writing bad code.

An hour when I'm in the zone is worth 2 days when Im not. If it takes me a day of taking a break to get into the zone its a net gain.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#192
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>" Maybe racist by the dictionary definition " That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >" I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same. " Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as…

As in OP, the follow up comments to your comment only care about minorities and reject any consideration of white people in poverty past a fleeting acknowledgement. This is then implicitly justifies the OP's sweeping, slanderous statement that serious contributions only happen if the person is upper-class, white, and male. Which is what set our side of this tangent off to begin with. The amount of comments by liberal…

> they don't care about whites or discrimination against them.

I don't wish anyone to suffer. As a white person I realize that the power structure overall still benefits and lifts up white people while generally crushing people of color. You may have experienced racism, prejudice or discrimination but I very much doubt you've experienced the systematic destruction of livelihood that people of color have and continue to experience.

> I got laughed at one time by a room full of them for even trying to apply.

Sorry about that but it's a very small example and doesn't prevent you as a white person from going almost anywhere else in the world and benefiting from your skin color. I.e. the rate of occurrence of what you experienced is very small vs what people of color face. It doesn't mean you should be laughed at, but it's isolated and not a systemic problem.

Edit: of course, down vote all you want but please also show me what's not true about this.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#193
post #9

I think this article is detached from reality. Most people who contribute to OS are on low income, unemployed or students. Top developers in banks and startups dont have time for that, or are forbidden by their company. Being "top developer" is one of the most family friendly jobs that ever existed. You can work remotely at your own time. I quit cubicle and started working on opensource because I had family. > you mi…

>> 20-year-old white guys with no responsibilities and/or with enough income to "buy" more free time

>Good old racism and man hate is doing just fine.

Allow me to point out that racism usually applies to people who are experiencing oppression because of not being white. This has to do with a society which has created structures and institutions that give white people privilege at the expense of everyone else.

Same goes for sexism.

Thus, white males live at the top of a pyramid of oppression, without seeing it.

Privilege is transparent for the privileged. It's like playing a game on easy and wondering why everyone else is complaining.

Well, other people are playing at different difficulty -- people of color on "hard" and "berserk" modes, women of color on "insanely hard." And they don't get to choose their level.

This is why, as a white male, I try to not get defensive and blame the ones who point out the existing institutionalized oppression in being "(reverse) racist" or "man-hating".

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#194
post #36

The tragedy is that the blog post, and the resulting commentary here, are about identity, when the heart of the topic the author is _really_ talking about (if you actually RTFA) is class/capital. This tragic misdirection is the defining problem of our time. The people who are working, be it white collar "tech" employee or manufacturing/service worker are those either who are forced to do so because they will starve i…

The irony of your communist commentary is not lost on me, you say we shouldn't in/out group while you're in/out grouping people in bosses vs workers.

I'm a worker and on my last position I was at an outsourcing firm that while pretending to care about its employees underpayed us while overcharging their clients, whenever we wanted to get a raise the goalposts of what was necessary were moved so it wasn't achievable and the overwork was masked behind a "we care about quality" attitude. Given all of this understandably we had a very high burn rate for devs.

I decided to grow up and begin to figure out how to do my own selling so I can charge what I want, work on the projects that I want and the hours that I want. I don't blame "Neoliberal capitalists" for my own failures, it's self-defeating and childish to not take control over your own destiny.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#195

I am a recruiter and always ask this question - "Is programming just a job for you to get the bills paid, or do you have a broader interest?" The thing to understand, and what the author of this post has wrong, is that I am not looking to hear about how much TIME a developer spends on programming. I am wanting to hear the STORY of their personal interest. Because the truth is that if software development is a persona…

When I need a plumber, I don't choose one based on his fiery passion for plumbing or because he fixes toilets for free in his spare time.

>fiery passion for plumbing or because he fixes toilets for free in his spare time.

My sides went into orbit after reading that.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#196
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME, outsourcing works because you get (most) management onus placed on the outsourcer. Remote workers with in-office management doesn't feature that.

Having been part of outsourced projects since 2008,I would say that is a nice theory. You require the same amount of in-office management. Every time that management decided as you say, they got something else as delivery.

So true. In fact, it can be even worse managing an outsourcer style vendor, since the natural industry pressures lead to outsourcers being very incentivized to find the very minimum possible effort they can spend on a client project without losing the contract.

As a result, getting more effort out of an outsourcer may feel as annoying as getting your insurance company to approve your claim -- their entire company culture/process has evolved and/or been designed to prevent this.

By contrast, individual employees (remote or otherwise) might get lazy or burnt out or have personal problems or something, but few of them are actually Wally from Dilbert, using all their available effort to avoid having to make any effort

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#197
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in OP, the follow up comments to your comment only care about minorities and reject any consideration of white people in poverty past a fleeting acknowledgement. This is then implicitly justifies the OP's sweeping, slanderous statement that serious contributions only happen if the person is upper-class, white, and male. Which is what set our side of this tangent off to begin with. The amount of comments by liberal…

> they don't care about whites or discrimination against them. I don't wish anyone to suffer. As a white person I realize that the power structure overall still benefits and lifts up white people while generally crushing people of color. You may have experienced racism, prejudice or discrimination but I very much doubt you've experienced the systematic destruction of livelihood that people of color have and continue…

"You may have experienced racism, prejudice or discrimination but I very much doubt you've experienced the systematic destruction of livelihood that people of color have and continue to experience."

I lived in an area where government, jobs, and schools were largely dominated and controlled by blacks. You bet I experienced systematic overt and subtle discrimination that held me back. It shocks your subset of liberals to discover this but it's a human group not race issue that merely manifests as race. If blacks are the majority, the same problems show up against any other player. Whites are majority in most areas, so the problems usually show up against non-whites. So, in mostly black areas, we get unusual expectations, more punishment more often for offenses, ganged up on, laughed away from jobs seen as appealing to blacks, served later at a food place "randomly," and so on. Same shit. Just nobody fights for us and liberals don't acknowledge it happens without... it's like a refrain... "may have experienced" prejudice/whatever in "small examples" vs (non-whites here).

Of course, you people conveniently ignore that there's different types of white people. Matter of fact, my Irish ancestors in this country and many other European immigrants would be very confused at your assessment given they got lots of discrimination. Still do if 1st generation. I like citing anti-Irish articles from history in front of blacks talking about "discrimination of the past" and why things had to change. They shake their heads yes until I tell them it was about Irish whites. They get confused because nobody told them English whites discriminated against all other whites and vice versa. Refrain was "one thing called white" vs "everyone else." Then, they either adjust their thinking or go into denial.

Even so, I still don't have to go that far. See, intellectual white people that love computers are called "nerds." We experience the exact kind of systematic discrimination and profiling you describe. We're filtered out of upward mobility in most business circles due to lack of social fit. We're excluded from all kinds of social activities because we're different. We're shoehorned into jobs they think are best for "our kind" then not given gratitude or equal treatment by upper management. I'm so good at blending in with normal people that I get to hear all kinds of negative stuff by whites and blacks alike about what they think of my social class. White "privilege" among "nerds?" Only if the privilege is one kind of job in a specific pay range with less of everything else. That's not a privilege. It's like a peaceful, passive form of indentured servitude. Similar to what blacks claim about many of their job results.

So, yes, many whites do face systematic discrimination if they're not of the popular variety in terms of appearance, speech, ethnicity, or whatever. This has been true since American began far as I can tell. It goes back to the battles and issues I read about in World History among Europeans. You've probably seen it yourself but explained it off as... typically... "isolated and not systemic problem." No, it's just a series of isolated problems that repeat upon specific attributes throughout the system by white and non-white oppressors alike. Not systemic or regular, though. Just coincidentally pervasive. ;)

Note: I upvoted your comment because it's the kind of claims disconnected from reality that people need to see addressed with specific counterpoints.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#198
post #97
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I propose the Daenerys Targaryen test. If you know who Daenerys Targaryen is, you do not have "no time." You have priorities which included "I wish to know who Daenerys Targaryen is." No judgement! I do, too! But if you know who Daenerys Targaryen is and you're dissatisfied with your career growth, you should attempt to consciously be aware of the fact that you can choose different things in the future. I don't agr…

It seems that professional programmers have little understanding about the limits of human endurance in skilled labor. Junior doctors work 100 hour weeks and 36 hour shifts so busy they often don't have time to visit the bathroom. It may slightly harm your productivity by working more (almost certainly will) but to say you can't do anything on your own time except for watching Game of Thrones is overly pessimistic.

Or is it the other way around? Maybe it's the junior doctors that don't understand something that professional programmers _do_ about the limits of human endurance in skilled labor?

There's no way those 100 hour weeks and 36 hours shifts don't lead to a measurable increase in errors. Given that in medicine, errors can cost lives, it's morally reprehensible that anyone allows this kind of thing to go on in medicine today as a matter of course (outside of a true one-off emergency)

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctor's job is not exactly equivalent. After a day of programming, I feel I could still put in a couple hours of light manual labor or say drive for Uber, but I'm unable to focus intensely any longer. Doctors probably use a much greater variety of skills (and not just intense focus on 100% abstract problems for 8 hours), hence I think their resources deplete slower. I know that when I've worked at jobs which wer…

Do you really focus intensely for several hours at a time during a typical workday? What industry/domain are you working in? In my experience, most software jobs mix bits of intense abstract reasoning, distributed throughout the day, with an at-least-equal amount of tedious gruntwork or meetings.

For jobs, I do rather typical Java/Scala/BigData development. I agree that the there's a bit of mindless tediousness in the jobs, although a lot of it can eventually be automated.

However, IMO, when working on a large code base which you didn't author (so, pretty much the most typical case), if you want to do a good job - i.e. think through potential consequences of your changes, weight the pros and cons of alternative approaches etc. - you still need a ton of cognitive resources.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#200
post #159
post #64

A lot of comments are bringing up top athletes as a counterexample, which leads me to believe they don't understand what a high-level training regimen is actually like. I have a relatively unique persepective on this[1], so I thought I'd clarify a few things. Any sport is both mentally and physically exhausting, and it only gets more strenuous as you reach the higher levels. Nobody can keep this up all day, every day…

I think that there are more weak points where sports analogy breaks - sports is generally about preparing for competition and competition is not a daily event. If we continue with this analogy this would mean that the developers should be training for a while before hitting a day (or week) of an actual work, but we are actually expected to treat every day as a competition day. Another point is, that the training vari…

> I think that there are more weak points where sports analogy breaks - sports is generally about preparing for competition and competition is not a daily event.

It truly depends on the sport. On one extreme you have sports like marathon or Olympic lifting, which require elaborate cycles of months of training designed to deliver peak performance on an exact date.

But then on the other extreme you have sports like baseball, for which the season is half the year long and has players playing games almost every day. So there competition is a daily event, and the analogy to programming is more apt.

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