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“Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

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Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#161
post #93
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is when people take that viewpoint as a career. I code for a career. I also code for a hobby. I code for fun. They're different. You can eat. sleep. code. repeat. without it being eat. sleep. work. repeat. And you can mean it lightheartedly/halfheartedly as well. "Eat, sleep, game, repeat." can be the same thing. Obviously taking it literally is unhealthy, but I don't think anyone is proposing…

I don't know if you're young, obviously, but this is a young, or at least unattached, person's point of view. I taught myself to program in the 80's when I was in my early 20's. In my later 20's and through my early 30's I did it for fun and profit, often working on a project 14 or more hours a day. By the time I got into my early 40's I had a wife, three young children, a house, a couple of pets, etc. to go along wi…

I know what it feels like to have a lot of demands on your time when you're combining a family, a job and hobby projects. At one point something ends up always having to give, and typically it's the hobby projects.

I found this passage from the works of Thich Nhat Hanh very helpful to deal with that, YMMV.

“Then Allen said, “I’ve discovered a way to have a lot more time. In the past, I used to look at my time as if it were divided into several parts. One part I reserved for Joey, another part was for Sue, another part to help with Ana, another part for household work. The time left over I considered my own. I could read, write, do research, go for walks. But now I try not to divide time into parts anymore. I consider my time with Joey and Sue as my own time. When I help Joey with his homework, I try to find ways of seeing his time as my own time. I go through his lesson with him, sharing his presence and finding ways to be interested in what we do during that time. The time for him becomes my own time. The same with Sue. The remarkable thing is that now I have unlimited time for myself!”

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#162
post #8

Generally, this is an easy stance for young, unmarried, and otherwise unattached people to approach their career. A warning to those that think this will enhance their opportunities later in life. It won't. Sure there are a few great employers out there that will reward you with loyalty (or massive sums of money) but that is the exception. After a life of nothing but work, no matter how much you love it at the time,…

Fuckin' A, man.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#163
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll also realize that civvies have it pretty easy and that you can put up with almost any amount of bullsh*t.

Can you translate to simple English, please? I cannot understand that.

'civvies' == 'civilian', as opposed to a soldier.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#164
post #160
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is when people take that viewpoint as a career. I code for a career. I also code for a hobby. I code for fun. They're different. You can eat. sleep. code. repeat. without it being eat. sleep. work. repeat. And you can mean it lightheartedly/halfheartedly as well. "Eat, sleep, game, repeat." can be the same thing. Obviously taking it literally is unhealthy, but I don't think anyone is proposing…

The other phrases (like rave or game) is fun because it represent a dream as in wishing one could only do that. "Eat, sleep, code, repeat" is very much something you can do while working at Google or any other tech company. In fact you might even be, essentially, forced to do it during "crunch mode". It's not a dream, it's a nightmare. I get that some marketing person thought it would be funny, but work/life balance…

So is game to video game testers - often even worse off than our industry when it's crunch time - and far less respected.

It's about how you view it. View it as job and it sucks. View it as hobby, and it's fine.

Just like Gaming

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#165
Every subculture that requires some level of above normal commitment has a phrase like this. Basbeall, ballet, musicians, dancers. It seems the current Medium post flavor of the month is some semi formed shot at a tentative of programmer/tech culture. Most end up being so overblown, like this one, it just sound like middle schoolers in the cafeteria.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#166

I don't know if the author knows anyone who is an artist, but if they knew an artist it might add perspective on the t-shirt. There is a type of person who is driven to express their ideas and emotions. They can be moody and quiet or loud and extroverted but they get consumed by the process of creation and go into something like a trance state while creating. I have been that type of person and when I let myself go,…

Yep, this is really common from the people I've met that perform at a high level.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#167
I think this whole "you need a work life balance" propaganda can be as misleading as "eat, sleep, code, repeat", especially for younger programmers who have no idea and rely on more experienced idols (such as the guys at Basecamp).

It really depends on what kind of life you want to have. If your priority is more towards making a huge dent in the world, I think trying to have a "work life balance" is a terrible idea. Here I'm speaking statistically because there are rare cases where people stumbled upon success even without putting all their life into it, but I would say these are exceptions, not the rule.

Most extremely successful people have had very abnormal life--far from a balanced life--(Maybe you hear about them talking about having a balanced life here and there but that's them speaking after they have achieved success. Of course if you spent all your youth on working on something you would want that time back. But I doubt they would be where they are if they actually did what they say).

Take a look at Basecamp for example. I don't want to pick on them but there's no better way to argue with their philosophy than what's going on with them. Sure they were one of the pioneers in their space, sure their co-founder created Ruby on Rails, and I totally admire what they have achieved, but what have they achieved in the last several years otherwise in terms of their own product innovation? They have killed most of its other products, and their main product--Basecamp--is not exactly the mainstream product that everyone uses. If anything it's Slack that will become what Basecamp could have been. I watched one of their interview videos where they were talking about how they thought about building an awesome new product but decided not to because they didn't want to waste time maintaining a new product. Personally I cannot sympathize with that at all.

Of course, it sounds like this is exactly the type of business these guys want, which would let them live the lifestyle they want, but if you ask me, I would choose a life where I create something that has extremely huge impact in the world--hopefully even after I die--even if it means sacrificing a lot of my "lifestyle". The Basecamp guys decided to live a life where they are mildly successful and enjoy their life, but they probably won't achieve anything world-changing if they keep doing what they do. That's fine and I'm sure they don't care, and I'm not saying everyone should live a crazy life, but I'm just saying it's as "such bullshit" to say everyone should live an unambitious life as saying everyone should give up their life to be successful.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#168
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to war. You will have lot of experience and memories. It is easiest way to escape the cycle.

You'll also realize that civvies have it pretty easy and that you can put up with almost any amount of bullsh*t.

> You'll also realize that civvies have it pretty easy ??

> you can put up with almost any amount of bullsh*t.

It is not true. Good people are good, bad are bad, even at war. War just proves who is who.

Yep, thinking is changing from libertarian to utilitarian style, because you cannot help to all, and will need to chose what to protect, which lives to save, etc.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#169
post #103

Even if you want to eventually you won't be able to code around the clock. I', now 29 but working for startups putting in 8-14 hours a day takes its toll, and now I can't sit at a desk or my acid reflux will kindly tell me to take a walk. That or too much stress is hit, I'm out for the day with chest pains for the next day. Whats worse is you tell this to others and they don't understand because those that have not e…

I understand. You're probably sick of hearing it, but try meditation. Either a few minutes a day, or an app like Headspace, or jump in the deep end with a 10-day retreat, it doesn't really matter. You need to exercise your brains ability to observe without reacting or that ability becomes weakened. It's worth asking why it's so hard for the average person to do something as simple as sit still for 5 minutes. The bene…

Is just sitting there doing nothing enough, or do you need some technique? Do five minutes have any effect?

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, a developer that's talented enough to attract attention from Google then surely they'd be smart enough to know what constitutes working 'too much.' Of course not, not at all. We all have different skillsets, and good coding ability does not mean you're good in everything else.

Which is not at all what I said. I didn't even mention coding abilities. A developer does a lot more than just write code, but let me clarify: Anybody that's smart enough to hold a job should know when they are being asked to work too much.

I don't think knowing when you're being asked to work too much is a thing that comes automatically with whatever job skills you're hired for. Even if you work in management or HR, where having a sense of "too much work" is part of your job, you might not be objective enough to apply that expertise to yourself.

And even if you know you're working too long, you might not feel empowered to do something about it. This could be because you literally don't have the power—your employer requires everyone to work unreasonable hours—or because you lack the confidence or skills to use it.

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