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Top developers can have a life outside coding

belenalbeza.com

171–180 of 241 posts

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#171
post #80

I've known quite a few "24/7" programmers, but the smartest I've ever met worked a 4 day week so he could spend more time with his family. He was naturally exceptional though, stood out even in a company filled with people with Cambridge 1st-class degrees. Again this is making me think I should write my piece on programming while suffering chronic fatigue.

I would definitely love to read that. I have a friend that has lime disease/chronic fatigue and I often wonder how they get stuff done. It's hard enough for me to work hard with a normal regiment. I think your story would be inspiring.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#172
post #113
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe racist by the dictionary definition (judging by skin color) but it holds no force against actually preventing a white male from doing anything. I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same.

>" Maybe racist by the dictionary definition " That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >" I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same. " Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as…

As in OP, the follow up comments to your comment only care about minorities and reject any consideration of white people in poverty past a fleeting acknowledgement. This is then implicitly justifies the OP's sweeping, slanderous statement that serious contributions only happen if the person is upper-class, white, and male. Which is what set our side of this tangent off to begin with. The amount of comments by liberals against our counterclaims vs OP's slander is quite telling: they don't care about whites or discrimination against them.

I'm an impoverished white in a diverse area that is regularly passed on jobs because I don't fit in to another type of white or because I'm not black in jobs where workers are almost entirely black. I got laughed at one time by a room full of them for even trying to apply. There will be close to zero comments by the liberals on threads and tangents like this looking out for us even though there are at least hundreds of thousands... maybe millions... suffering white and non-white against white discrimination ensuring poverty or other ill effects. They don't care, though, because we're white. :)

It's what we nicknamed reverse racism. You're seeing a form of it in action where effort is only put into protecting minority or trying to understand their issues while rejecting effort into "majority" (please, I'm a white minority...) and/or no exploration into discrimination issues they face.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#173
post #30

Optimization is possible in most programmers schedule, true. But I still believe it's necessary to spend 30-60 hours a week for 11 months a year to successfully increase your skill. You can't cut off these either, if you want to be good. And your skill is bad at bargaining. You can't tell it "Listen to me skill, I have that other hobby as well. Give me a break!" Skill doesn't work that way.

At some point the real skill becomes to develop a reasonable solution with reasonable effort. You don't have to keep chasing the latest cool frameworks forever. It's good to know what the trends are but you can safely skip many of them.

You are right, that if it is about putting bread on the plate of your children reasonable results are enough and for that reasonable effort is enough. I assume you don't plan on getting to the top with that, though. That's what the article and title limit the discussion to though. And that's what I'm arguing against. You can't be at the top with "reasonable" effort.

And in case your first sentence means that you have given up finding ways to multiply or exponentiate your skills I would like to give you a little new hope. It's true that this kind of skill increase can't be found in new frameworks and tools. The reason is that it was already found in the 60s and 70s. Look for unix, look for vim, look for lisp (some may argue to add git to that list). Even if you don't use them in your daily life. Studying them will increase your skill to levels you cannot imagine.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#174
post #126
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>" Maybe racist by the dictionary definition " That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >" I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same. " Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as…

I agree that white people in poverty need help. However ignoring that black people face different challenges and are in fact differentialy affected by prejudice because of the existing power structure is itself perpetuating racism. The end goal is to treat everyone the same. Calling for colorblindness doesn't achieve that. Edit: Also, yes I have seen white people in poverty. Poverty is no different for them. However…

> However they are still treated better by the police, other institutions and large sections of society.

This is exactly my point, thank you.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#175
post #113
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe racist by the dictionary definition (judging by skin color) but it holds no force against actually preventing a white male from doing anything. I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same.

>" Maybe racist by the dictionary definition " That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides. >" I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same. " Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as…

> Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty

Maybe on the level of that they're both human, but the white person still benefits from the system made for white people.

Edit: relying only on the dictionary definition is impractical. While useful it avoids the deeper impacting levels.

And in that regard, perhaps yes, the dictionary definition should be the only thing that matters and we can then agree on the dictionary definition of the system of white supremacy that keeps people of color down. Yes, lots of white people in poverty too, but again, they aren't seen as a threat, they're given the 'benefit of doubt' while people of color are shot dead in the same situation.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#176
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for Hungary, it should be pretty similar, figures per month gross, net is ~2/3 of that, rough estimates as follows minimum wage $300 average wage $900 (official statistics for 2016 Q1) fresh graduate developer $1000 3-5 years of experience $2000-$3000 Can't speak for top engineers, but it would be surprising if more than a couple earns over $6000, it flats out pretty fast.

Wait, is that per month ? What's cost of living in an area with plenty of decent, IT people?

Also from Hungary, Budapest. Yes, those are monthly numbers. At BP you can rent a nice flat of 60-80 square meters for 420-500$. A beer is 2-3$ and on average you need 3-500$ to spend on casual things. It depends heavily on your lifestyle obviously, but I find it hard to spend a lot.

This is quite accurate: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#177

I am a recruiter and always ask this question - "Is programming just a job for you to get the bills paid, or do you have a broader interest?" The thing to understand, and what the author of this post has wrong, is that I am not looking to hear about how much TIME a developer spends on programming. I am wanting to hear the STORY of their personal interest. Because the truth is that if software development is a persona…

When I need a plumber, I don't choose one based on his fiery passion for plumbing or because he fixes toilets for free in his spare time.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#178

I am a recruiter and always ask this question - "Is programming just a job for you to get the bills paid, or do you have a broader interest?" The thing to understand, and what the author of this post has wrong, is that I am not looking to hear about how much TIME a developer spends on programming. I am wanting to hear the STORY of their personal interest. Because the truth is that if software development is a persona…

When I need a plumber, I don't choose one based on his fiery passion for plumbing or because he fixes toilets for free in his spare time.

I agree with the point you are making but would still continue to pay a little extra for someone that I knew enjoyed looking after the details while they were doing plumbing (or whatever trade).

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#179
Here's the thing that this blog post is missing: It's a marketplace with competition. Yes, ideally, you shouldn't work outside work and spend all your free time doing other things, and there should be no world hunger. But it doesn't work that way.

If I don't keep up to date and keep learning new things, someone else will (and the idea that this person is 20, white, male, and single seems a little racist and sexist to me). That other person will go on to do more stuff than I do if I don't keep up. That person will get compensated by the market for doing so by promotions, raises, not getting down-sized, or perhaps though success when starting their own company.

Yes, it's f* up that a company will expect this out of every single developer and that shouldn't be the case. But, when I need to fire someone because I didn't get as much in my B round as I thought I would, you'd be crazy to fire the guy who is as good of an employee AND invests in his skill set.

Personally, I love programming and do a lot of it outside of work because I really like doing it. Yes, there are a lot of biases in our industry, but often times it's pretty clear who the best programmers are and often times it's the one who have put in the hours. Nothing else. So yeah, don't code outside of work. You should definitely do that, but don't be surprised when your skill and your career suffer for it.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, is that per month ? What's cost of living in an area with plenty of decent, IT people?

Also from Hungary, Budapest. Yes, those are monthly numbers. At BP you can rent a nice flat of 60-80 square meters for 420-500$. A beer is 2-3$ and on average you need 3-500$ to spend on casual things. It depends heavily on your lifestyle obviously, but I find it hard to spend a lot. This is quite accurate: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...

That site is great! I love the detailed breakdown. I'm envious of what fresh food cost you. Strange enough, the beer and rent are comparable to my area. Utilities cost significantly more there than here. Our Internet costs a bit more but I get 50Mbps down. Clothing and apparel is similarly expensive.
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