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“Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

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Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#141

Post by nightski »

hunvreus wrote: post #86
uhtred wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I mean I'd like to run a "lifestyle" type of business; something where I don't make a ton of money, but enough to get by (rather than a startup where I'm hoping to solve humanity's problems with a single app and make millions or billions from it). Actually the company I work for is the best company I've ever worked at! I think I just don't find satisfaction in the 9-5 corporate grind.

Yep, but even that mystical "lifestyle business" (otherwise known as "a business") is a lot of non-coding work. For a healthy dose of realism, I suggest you watch some of the MicroConf videos [1] (and definitely go there if you can). [1]: http://www.microconf.com/videos

Meh, it's all about how you choose to run your business. I run a small business and spend a few hours a month on non-technical tasks (accounting, etc...).

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#142

Post by UK-AL »

hunvreus wrote: post #86
uhtred wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I mean I'd like to run a "lifestyle" type of business; something where I don't make a ton of money, but enough to get by (rather than a startup where I'm hoping to solve humanity's problems with a single app and make millions or billions from it). Actually the company I work for is the best company I've ever worked at! I think I just don't find satisfaction in the 9-5 corporate grind.

Yep, but even that mystical "lifestyle business" (otherwise known as "a business") is a lot of non-coding work. For a healthy dose of realism, I suggest you watch some of the MicroConf videos [1] (and definitely go there if you can). [1]: http://www.microconf.com/videos

Most programming jobs have a lot of crappy coding to do as well

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#143

Post by ap22213 »

Klathmon wrote: post #108
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, for the most part, folks aren't out there hiking for a living. Which makes the "hiking conferences" more of a hobbyist convention... outside of people that develop products for hiking. And I'd still recommend those people to hike for enjoyment in their free time and not be out there developing products or trying to sell what their company makes.

I just don't get the distinction. If I program for a hobby, who are you to say how I should spend my free time? Yeah, it would be sad to see someone slaving their life away for their company, but I'm not doing that, and I'm not going to hide that I like to program outside of work (and 100% unrelated to work) because some people on the internet say I should... And I don't think shaming those who program for a hobby is…

Maybe not seeing the forest for the trees?

The 'forest' in this case is that tech companies have been trying to transform work into a lifestyle for 20 years now. And, it has now gotten to the point where one is expected to be 'all in' at one's job or not have a job.

The shirt is cool - I kind of like it. And, coding can be a lot of fun. Both are fine things, in of themselves. But, the problem is the larger context of what's going on: companies are tying to trick people into working more and for less money.

The 'elder wisdom' is that a lot of developers have gotten burned out in this industry over the past 20 years. The best of us have worked hard and long and spilled out our creativity and passion. We have developed successful products that have made some people extremely wealthy. And, yet, we never got our implicitly promised reward.

The shirt should say:

Eat. sleep. code. get paid. repeat.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#144

Post by brandonmenc »

krisroadruck wrote: post #126
slmyers wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But once you get burnt out at something, digging ditches out in the sunshine (or rain for that matter) looks much more appealing. Spoken like a person that's never dug a ditch.

I've done both, and honestly if I could get paid 6 figures to work outside with my hands I'd probably switch back and forth between the 2 every 3-4 years. Sure manual labor is hard but it has some rewards to. Sadly one of those rewards is not a decent living.

> I've done both

Me too.

Even at its worst, the flexibility of a programming job outweighs everything else. I'd still rather set my own 60 hour schedule than have a set-in-stone 40 hour one.

> Sadly one of those rewards is not a decent living.

You must not know any plumbers, garbage haulers, streets employees, masons, finish carpenters, or electricians.

I have friends and family in each of those categories, and they all do well. They live better than every single one of my friends who graduated college with non-engineering degrees.

You can make a decent living with manual labor if you choose wisely, and most of that work will never disappear - people will always have toilets, for example.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#145

Post by 20years »

rplst8 wrote: post #8

Generally, this is an easy stance for young, unmarried, and otherwise unattached people to approach their career. A warning to those that think this will enhance their opportunities later in life. It won't. Sure there are a few great employers out there that will reward you with loyalty (or massive sums of money) but that is the exception. After a life of nothing but work, no matter how much you love it at the time,…

I can relate. After doing this for over 15 years and many of those in the "Eat, sleep, code, repeat" mode, I sometimes lay in bed at night and imagine what it would be like being a gardener. I picture landscaping plans I would design and it feels like heaven being outside all day making those plans come to life.

But as they say, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#146

Post by ChuckMcM »

I don't know if the author knows anyone who is an artist, but if they knew an artist it might add perspective on the t-shirt.

There is a type of person who is driven to express their ideas and emotions. They can be moody and quiet or loud and extroverted but they get consumed by the process of creation and go into something like a trance state while creating.

I have been that type of person and when I let myself go, would spend hours and hours writing and rewriting code as the design evolved. I thought I was just oddly broken until I got to college and met an art student sculpting a rock at 3AM on my way back from the computer science building (its a weird thing to hear a rock hammer going 'tink, tink, tink' at 3 in the morning.) I watched in amazement for a while until they stopped and we talked. Turned out they had a very similar "mode" that I did, thinking about the work and then suddenly they could "see it" and at that point they were compelled to chip away the rock and let the rest of the world see it. I felt the same way about programs, all at once it seemed I just "knew" how it should go together and would work through the night banging it out.

It isn't a terrible or horrible thing, its something which is very satisfying. And its also true that no one else may appreciate your creation so you have to be ready to just be happy with creating it :-).

Later in life I met people who were programmers who just "turned it on and off" like a spigot, they go into work, get their assignment, turn on the programming spigot and write code, then turn it off again and go home to their life. Their t-shirt might read "code, get paid, go home."

I read the headline and disagreed, I read the article and realized the author isn't driven to create with code. That is totally understandable, it is a small percentage of the population that is. But the phrase speaks to that small percentage and not to them. Like art, if it doesn't speak to your soul then just ignore it and move on.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#147

Post by epimetheus »

maleck13 wrote: post #131
markbnj wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you're young, obviously, but this is a young, or at least unattached, person's point of view. I taught myself to program in the 80's when I was in my early 20's. In my later 20's and through my early 30's I did it for fun and profit, often working on a project 14 or more hours a day. By the time I got into my early 40's I had a wife, three young children, a house, a couple of pets, etc. to go along wi…

I was a gardener until I was 25. I hated it. My father is still a gardener and he loves it. I am 35 now an I eat sleep and live software and I love it. Although I do try to work on l my own projects in my own time. I have 2 young kids and admit I find the balance hard. If you love what you do then it often doesn't feel like work, but like a hobby that you also get paid for. You see this is sports and many other vocat…

Were you a gardener, as in Master Gardener? I imagine that's a bit different of a job than a Landscaper or Yard Maintenance type of position. Having known lawn mowers/maintainers, and landscapers galore (most of whom hated their jobs), but only one Master Gardener (who loved their job), I gotta think they are very distinct positions.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#148

Post by epimetheus »

xabotage wrote: post #42
rplst8 wrote: post #8

Generally, this is an easy stance for young, unmarried, and otherwise unattached people to approach their career. A warning to those that think this will enhance their opportunities later in life. It won't. Sure there are a few great employers out there that will reward you with loyalty (or massive sums of money) but that is the exception. After a life of nothing but work, no matter how much you love it at the time,…

I distinctly remember sitting in yet another dull sprint retrospective and thinking, "Boy, I wish I were a firefighter." Granted, that line of work comes with its own drawbacks and I would certainly get bored of it the same way I get bored of software (or else worn out from the demanding physical aspect), but some days I'm surprised to find myself wishing I could "dig ditches out in the sunshine" or something of the…

My father was a firefighter for 20+ years (retired a few years back, made it to Captain), and I almost regret not following in his footsteps. It'd be the perfect job for a freelance web developer. 24 hours on, 48 hours off, most of those 24 hours are sitting around the station, so I imagine I could code a good portion of those, not to mention on the other days off.

Plus great retirement.

Re: “Eat, sleep, code, repeat” is such bullshit

#149

Post by sz4kerto »

shrugger wrote: post #123
dasil003 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the shirt that bothers me, it's the fact that Google tries to create this kind of work culture internally with perks designed to keep you at work longer, and then they sell this shirt so they can profit even more from the wider developer community's passion. I know that Google pays their developers well, and personally I am a bit of a workaholic myself devoting long hours to my company, but still there is so…

Don't they have the right? I mean, a developer that's talented enough to attract attention from Google then surely they'd be smart enough to know what constitutes working 'too much.' I don't think Google exploits its workers anymore than they exploit themselves. If you think you've worked too much, then go home? If they ask you "hey, do you want to pull a 80-hour week this week?" why should you say anything other tha…

> I mean, a developer that's talented enough to attract attention from Google then surely they'd be smart enough to know what constitutes working 'too much.'

Of course not, not at all. We all have different skillsets, and good coding ability does not mean you're good in everything else.

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