Top developers can have a life outside coding • Hacker News Board

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#141

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:17 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #119

imechura wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Top developers in banks and startups dont have time for that Sorry to disagree but I have spent my whole 15 year career as a developer at banks and many fortune 50/100 companies and I can tell you for certain that most developers in these extremely high paying corporate jobs, including the developers do rarely do any software development or practice outside of the office. Keep in mind that most of these jobs requir…

I'm curious then, on what basis are new hires considered qualified? Not the ones moving horizontally from a similar company where employment itself in the prior company would denote ability, but those who are moving up in their career or from a different tech subspecialty? If a lot of the work is proprietary, you're not expecting FOSS contributions, and algorithmic tests are out, what metric do you use? Do you just m…

Talk to the person. Let them describe what they have done previously. Ask how and why decisions have been made. What they would do better. If you know your stuff yourself it's not that hard to figure out if the applicant knows his or her stuff.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#142

Post by takno » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:19 PM UTC

jschwartzi wrote: post #124

andrewstuart wrote: post #63

I am a recruiter and always ask this question - "Is programming just a job for you to get the bills paid, or do you have a broader interest?" The thing to understand, and what the author of this post has wrong, is that I am not looking to hear about how much TIME a developer spends on programming. I am wanting to hear the STORY of their personal interest. Because the truth is that if software development is a persona…

So, is recruiting a passion for you? Did you find yourself driven to do it whatever the cost? What personal recruiting projects have you done recently that you're proud of? Do you connect your recruiting with a personal interest? What kind of recruiting do you do outside of work hours? I would implore you to re-read what you wrote but instead of making it about software engineering make it about recruiting. Then tell…

Most recruiters I've met never stop recruiting and spend a great deal of "social" time talking to people in relevant areas and trying to figure out how to get them a job. It's usually quite obnoxious, but definitely doesn't speak to thinking of recruiting as a 9-5 job

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#143

Post by cagmz » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

kd5bjo wrote: post #64

A lot of comments are bringing up top athletes as a counterexample, which leads me to believe they don't understand what a high-level training regimen is actually like. I have a relatively unique persepective on this[1], so I thought I'd clarify a few things. Any sport is both mentally and physically exhausting, and it only gets more strenuous as you reach the higher levels. Nobody can keep this up all day, every day…

I like the idea of applying less time, but more strenuous effort, towards programming, but how does someone do this?

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#144

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

erikb wrote: post #30

Optimization is possible in most programmers schedule, true. But I still believe it's necessary to spend 30-60 hours a week for 11 months a year to successfully increase your skill. You can't cut off these either, if you want to be good. And your skill is bad at bargaining. You can't tell it "Listen to me skill, I have that other hobby as well. Give me a break!" Skill doesn't work that way.

At some point the real skill becomes to develop a reasonable solution with reasonable effort. You don't have to keep chasing the latest cool frameworks forever. It's good to know what the trends are but you can safely skip many of them.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#145

Post by maxxxxx » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

cagmz wrote: post #143

kd5bjo wrote: post #64

A lot of comments are bringing up top athletes as a counterexample, which leads me to believe they don't understand what a high-level training regimen is actually like. I have a relatively unique persepective on this[1], so I thought I'd clarify a few things. Any sport is both mentally and physically exhausting, and it only gets more strenuous as you reach the higher levels. Nobody can keep this up all day, every day…

I like the idea of applying less time, but more strenuous effort, towards programming, but how does someone do this?

I avoid useless meetings and "coordinating" with clueless people and focus on getting things done. It's a fine line though. If you totally ignore the outside there is a danger that you will miss the latest information that may impact your project. But with some practice you can filter out a lot of noise. It's good to have friends in your organization that keep you updated on the important trends. Also: When you are at work, really work.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#146

Post by Retric » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

kd5bjo wrote: post #132

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm presuming the difference is that they're kids at a tennis academy. Someone is presumably paying good money for them to be there, and by the time they become professionals, they'll have spent XX years already in training, with someone else presumably working and funding their entire stay/attendance. This then presumes that those kids who do actually make it to the pro circuit aren't then the ones that also have th…

> This then presumes that those kids who do actually make it to the pro circuit aren't then the ones that also have the advantages and put in extra above and beyond the other kids (and with a little bit of luck on top). This was my point: the kids that figure out how to put in extra effort during scheduled training will rise above the rest; ones that try to train during scheduled rest periods start to fall behind bec…

This is what most people forget. 40 hours a week is a lot of time. There is this odd mindset where people waste most of the day, and then work late as if that's somehow the only way to get things done. Instead your much better off putting in a solid 8 at a company that does not waste time, and then going home to do other things.

If you end up in a job where you can't work for 35+ hours a week during normal business hours don't stay late, find a new job.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#147

Post by cpprototypes » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

imechura wrote: post #109

jkot wrote: post #9

I think this article is detached from reality. Most people who contribute to OS are on low income, unemployed or students. Top developers in banks and startups dont have time for that, or are forbidden by their company. Being "top developer" is one of the most family friendly jobs that ever existed. You can work remotely at your own time. I quit cubicle and started working on opensource because I had family. > you mi…

> Top developers in banks and startups dont have time for that Sorry to disagree but I have spent my whole 15 year career as a developer at banks and many fortune 50/100 companies and I can tell you for certain that most developers in these extremely high paying corporate jobs, including the developers do rarely do any software development or practice outside of the office. Keep in mind that most of these jobs requir…

What are some of these companies? A common advice I've seen here and other sites is that the best workplace for developers will be at companies where the software is the main revenue product. It's assumed that if software dev is seen as just a pure cost and not the main revenue generator, then workplace for dev will be horrible due to lack of influence and status in the company.

The reasoning for this seems intuitive and correct. But I'm wondering if there's evidence it's wrong. What are these great companies for developers and are they software revenue companies? If not, what are the forces that maintain a good workplace for developers when software is not the main revenue?

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#148

Post by zacharypinter » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

jschwartzi wrote: post #124

andrewstuart wrote: post #63

I am a recruiter and always ask this question - "Is programming just a job for you to get the bills paid, or do you have a broader interest?" The thing to understand, and what the author of this post has wrong, is that I am not looking to hear about how much TIME a developer spends on programming. I am wanting to hear the STORY of their personal interest. Because the truth is that if software development is a persona…

So, is recruiting a passion for you? Did you find yourself driven to do it whatever the cost? What personal recruiting projects have you done recently that you're proud of? Do you connect your recruiting with a personal interest? What kind of recruiting do you do outside of work hours? I would implore you to re-read what you wrote but instead of making it about software engineering make it about recruiting. Then tell…

He's reading and commenting on a Hacker News post about jobs on the weekend. Seems like that answers at least part of your question.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#149

Post by takno » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:32 PM UTC

Wonnk13 wrote: post #35

patio11 wrote: post #23

I propose the Daenerys Targaryen test. If you know who Daenerys Targaryen is, you do not have "no time." You have priorities which included "I wish to know who Daenerys Targaryen is." No judgement! I do, too! But if you know who Daenerys Targaryen is and you're dissatisfied with your career growth, you should attempt to consciously be aware of the fact that you can choose different things in the future. It takes minu…

> You almost certainly know one topic well enough to post something which clears that bar of utility on any given day I'm only 27, but I don't believe this. I know just enough to know I don't know anything deeply. Does the internet need another github page regurgitating the same stuff as everyone else?

The world doesn't need another CV or an application form where I talk about a particular challenge I faced and how I overcame it. I still fill those out.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#150

Post by jcoffland » Sat, May 21, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

"One could think that having kids or building a family is a choice. Even assuming this is true (it really isn't)"

What? Of course it's a choice.

And I'm sorry but, you can choose to leave programming at the office and be a perfectly good programmer but if you don't love it so much that you do it for fun as well then you are not going to be a master programmer. Just like a classical violinist who only practices a few hours a day is probably not going to be a virtuoso.