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Top developers can have a life outside coding

belenalbeza.com

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Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#111
post #64

A lot of comments are bringing up top athletes as a counterexample, which leads me to believe they don't understand what a high-level training regimen is actually like. I have a relatively unique persepective on this[1], so I thought I'd clarify a few things. Any sport is both mentally and physically exhausting, and it only gets more strenuous as you reach the higher levels. Nobody can keep this up all day, every day…

I'm presuming the difference is that they're kids at a tennis academy.

Someone is presumably paying good money for them to be there, and by the time they become professionals, they'll have spent XX years already in training, with someone else presumably working and funding their entire stay/attendance.

This then presumes that those kids who do actually make it to the pro circuit aren't then the ones that also have the advantages and put in extra above and beyond the other kids (and with a little bit of luck on top).

Now, I don't know what other people's life was like growing up. I mentioned in my other comments that conceivably there are some kids who had parents who both supply them with knowledge, fund their study, their lifestyle, gave them opportunities and access, and that such people might subsequently have greater abilities than myself, and maybe those people will become top notch coders even with some hobbies and time on the side.

But no one is paying to have me (or others) learn to code or update my skills. No one is paying to send me to a training camp or academy. I taught myself computers and I know many others did too. There was/were limited academies when I grew up, and there aren't any pros for us to learn from except ourselves now.

Many of us aren't paid to do our coding or our study, many workplaces or academies aren't even interested in that kind of coding or study.

And, of course we burn out. No shit.

But that doesn't mean that if you don't want to become top rate you don't have to put in more than a paltry 8 hour workday. Indeed, EVERY decent coder I've known has done it. Not a single one I know hasn't. I have not met any decent coder that hasn't been doing their own thing on their own time and that wasn't interesting and successful in teaching themselves in their own time.

The tennis kids have someone else to put in a workday so they can then spend hours per week at a leisure activity.

Unless we are very lucky, we spend our work/school day so we can ferret away the time and resources to focus on the stuff we actually value, and then that knowledge then gets transmitted back to the workplace...

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#112
post #64

A lot of comments are bringing up top athletes as a counterexample, which leads me to believe they don't understand what a high-level training regimen is actually like. I have a relatively unique persepective on this[1], so I thought I'd clarify a few things. Any sport is both mentally and physically exhausting, and it only gets more strenuous as you reach the higher levels. Nobody can keep this up all day, every day…

If comparing to athletes, Cirque du Soleil performers are a great analogy. I've read interviews where they say that while they do practice daily, and it is work, it is far less intense than the physical preparation for competitive athletics. They do what they do very well, but their goal is simply to do the job. They are not trying to be the best in the world at anything as individuals... just working as a team to produce a product that is world-class.

Coding is the same - you do not need to be the best in the world. You do not need to be famous for your open source projects. You do need to be competent, and put in the work, with a good team, and focus not on yourself, but on your product.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#113
post #62

> Who can afford to keep coding after an 8-hour work day of coding? Who doesn't get harassed in the open-source community? 20-year-old white guys with no responsibilities Yeah, stopped reading at this point. Your "intersectional social justice theory" is just casual sexism and racism to me.

Maybe racist by the dictionary definition (judging by skin color) but it holds no force against actually preventing a white male from doing anything. I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same.

>"Maybe racist by the dictionary definition"

That is the only definition that matters. Everything else is subjective, relative and open to abuse by bad people from all sides.

>"I as a white male can underachieve my way into anything while other genders and people of color must work much harder for the same."

Have you seen white people in poverty? They are no different than black people in poverty, and are just as needing of our help. To make a distinction and help one over the other is plain old racism according to the dictionary/textbook definition and has no place in an inclusive society.

#Edit. Formatting.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#114
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in German we have a saying like "One kid is no kid". The increase from zero to one kid might feel like you mastered a big step (and it is!).. But a second kid is a total game changer. I am hard pressed to find some time for Netflix and a bit of guitar playing every once in a while. Do I want to exchange that for coding for some bigger cause? Nope.

Why is the jump from 1 to 2 bigger than the jump from 0 to 1?

Because it has the potential of reserving nearly all of your leisure time over months-years. Caring for a baby while a crazy 3 year old wants to play/eat/fight can be overwhelming compared to just one kid. There's also the organizational side - every step outside the door becomes an endeavour. Then there is housing - good luck with that 100 sq feet apartment (it could work with one kid, but impossible with two). Same with small cars - forget them with a 2nd kid.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#115
post #81
post #54

There's a certain sense of irony that we're all here disagreeing on a Saturday.

Hahahaha. Should we be coding, reading about code, or doing fun non work stuff? Voting for the latter. Thanks for the wake up!

Coding (or problem solving) IS the fun part for me. Stealing the idea from a Ray Lewis quote: I get paid to deal with everything else at work. The coding I do for free.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked great for me with one kid, but with a baby and 2.5 year-old it's impossible. Sometimes caring for both together as one person is impossible (i.e. if both are ill). My son was amazing, he slept 16 hours, giving me 5-6 hours during the day and 2-3 in the evenings to work. Working at the same time was great. My daughter however sleeps very erratically alone, however she sleeps OK on a person. So you have a bab…

It's doable so long as everyone involved is bought in. We have a two and a bit year old and I work from home full time, with the odd visit to the office for planning sessions. The reason it works is that my wife treats me being in my study in much the same way she would me being in an office elsewhere, but with the perks of me being able to see her and our son when I come out to make some tea or have lunch, and witho…

Ahh, you're not looking after the kids, your wife is :)

We both work, originally full time, but now 4 days a week.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#117
post #64

A lot of comments are bringing up top athletes as a counterexample, which leads me to believe they don't understand what a high-level training regimen is actually like. I have a relatively unique persepective on this[1], so I thought I'd clarify a few things. Any sport is both mentally and physically exhausting, and it only gets more strenuous as you reach the higher levels. Nobody can keep this up all day, every day…

I'm presuming the difference is that they're kids at a tennis academy. Someone is presumably paying good money for them to be there, and by the time they become professionals, they'll have spent XX years already in training, with someone else presumably working and funding their entire stay/attendance. This then presumes that those kids who do actually make it to the pro circuit aren't then the ones that also have th…

"But no one is paying to have me (or others) learn to code or update my skills. No one is paying to send me to a training camp or academy."

Many workplaces offer professional development budgets to attend conferences / training, many also offer reimbursement for continuing education. Additionally one of the smartest things you can do at your job is find promising tech that has applications at work. I've been getting paid to learn for almost my entire career, along with my coworkers, so this comment seemed really out of place with my experience anyways

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#118
post #78
post #5

Why are we making a special case for software developers, on points we would agree on in other professions? Let's say you're making a movie, and you're hiring your music composer. Both candidates have nearly identical CVs/experience/recommandations. - Candidate 'A' says "I'm only doing this for money, I can't show you any of my work because of NDAs". - Candidate 'B' says "I spend a lot of time composing in my freetim…

I can't show you any of my work because of NDAs This is not their fault, and a real serious problem with the way developer recruitment works. You can't judge people by their previous work. Whereas in other creative industries everyone has a portfolio or showreel, and you can't get hired without one.

Yeah, this is really frustrating to me. No job I've had allowed for contributing to open source - the projects themselves where done under NDA, and you were certainly not working on anything that wasn't directly billable at work. On top of that, anything I do outside of work is (nominally) the property of the company. And I really don't have time to do any programming outside of work, even if I wanted to - I don't have any itches that need scratching.

Other people are saying "well, just find time". "Finding time" requires sleeping less or cutting out responsibilities. (I am HNing this morning while eating breakfast, if you're wondering. :)

This is really frustrating when looking for a new job and probably two-thirds of them want to see my Github profile.

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#119
post #9

I think this article is detached from reality. Most people who contribute to OS are on low income, unemployed or students. Top developers in banks and startups dont have time for that, or are forbidden by their company. Being "top developer" is one of the most family friendly jobs that ever existed. You can work remotely at your own time. I quit cubicle and started working on opensource because I had family. > you mi…

> Top developers in banks and startups dont have time for that Sorry to disagree but I have spent my whole 15 year career as a developer at banks and many fortune 50/100 companies and I can tell you for certain that most developers in these extremely high paying corporate jobs, including the developers do rarely do any software development or practice outside of the office. Keep in mind that most of these jobs requir…

I'm curious then, on what basis are new hires considered qualified? Not the ones moving horizontally from a similar company where employment itself in the prior company would denote ability, but those who are moving up in their career or from a different tech subspecialty? If a lot of the work is proprietary, you're not expecting FOSS contributions, and algorithmic tests are out, what metric do you use? Do you just match years experience with the stack? Educational attainment?

Re: Top developers can have a life outside coding

#120
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that professional programmers have little understanding about the limits of human endurance in skilled labor. Junior doctors work 100 hour weeks and 36 hour shifts so busy they often don't have time to visit the bathroom. It may slightly harm your productivity by working more (almost certainly will) but to say you can't do anything on your own time except for watching Game of Thrones is overly pessimistic.

The doctor's job is not exactly equivalent. After a day of programming, I feel I could still put in a couple hours of light manual labor or say drive for Uber, but I'm unable to focus intensely any longer. Doctors probably use a much greater variety of skills (and not just intense focus on 100% abstract problems for 8 hours), hence I think their resources deplete slower. I know that when I've worked at jobs which wer…

Do you really focus intensely for several hours at a time during a typical workday? What industry/domain are you working in? In my experience, most software jobs mix bits of intense abstract reasoning, distributed throughout the day, with an at-least-equal amount of tedious gruntwork or meetings.
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