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Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

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Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#221

Post by nacs »

_puk wrote: post #212
shmerl wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understood, CDN is needed to lift the heavy load from the source servers. Without them you'd be hammered by heavy traffic, and not only that, the route to the end user will be most likely longer. DASH is adaptive streaming, and as such, when you select some stream from the client, CDN should support that in their infrastructure (including codecs and etc.). I don't know the details exactly, but it's far fr…

> DASH is adaptive streaming, and as such, when you select some stream from the client, CDN should support that in their infrastructure Adaptive streaming is essentially a client side technology, all the CDN needs to do is ensure that it serves up files with the right mime type (not actually a hard requirement, but many players choke if you don't). Which segment to play next is decided by the player based on current…

> in theory you can use DASH with existing HLS segments (MPEG-2 .ts files), but no-one supports it (or likely ever will)

Twitch.tv does exactly that for their non-Flash streaming (MPEG2 .ts files delivered in pieces).

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#222

Post by shmerl »

nacs wrote: post #221
_puk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DASH is adaptive streaming, and as such, when you select some stream from the client, CDN should support that in their infrastructure Adaptive streaming is essentially a client side technology, all the CDN needs to do is ensure that it serves up files with the right mime type (not actually a hard requirement, but many players choke if you don't). Which segment to play next is decided by the player based on current…

> in theory you can use DASH with existing HLS segments (MPEG-2 .ts files), but no-one supports it (or likely ever will) Twitch.tv does exactly that for their non-Flash streaming (MPEG2 .ts files delivered in pieces).

Why doesn't Twitch work in Firefox without Flash?

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#223

Post by Shorel »

dcgudeman wrote: post #143
spriggan3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix can make its own app, outside the web.

One of the most attractive features of netflix is the ability stream movies on the browser. Why would we want to move that to a separate app?

I prefer Netflix in Kodi, not in the browser.

It's a far superior experience.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#224

Post by Tiksi »

exodust wrote: post #179
dcgudeman wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most attractive features of netflix is the ability stream movies on the browser. Why would we want to move that to a separate app?

I wouldn't call limiting resolution to 720p in the browser "attractive". Are you aware of this limit? In Chrome and Firefox, you can't watch Netflix above 720p. It's why I must use IE with Silverlight to watch Netflix at full HD on Windows 7.

I thought the limit/split was 1080p in browser, 4k only through certain channels?

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#225

Post by Veratyr »

shmerl wrote: post #205
Veratyr wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CDN should support that in their infrastructure (including codecs and etc.) This makes sense if the CDN is transcoding the video for you but if you do that yourself I don't think a special CDN is necessary. From Mozilla [0]: > DASH works via HTTP, so as long as your HTTP server supports byte range requests, and it's set up to serve .mpd files with mimetype="application/dash+xml", then you're all set. And from encod…

I see. If that's so trivial however, then why such services like Twitch and others have so many problems switching to HTML5?

Twitch needs very low latency streams. For them Flash and something like RTMP might work better.

Not sure about others.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#226

Post by Veratyr »

shmerl wrote: post #214
_puk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DASH is adaptive streaming, and as such, when you select some stream from the client, CDN should support that in their infrastructure Adaptive streaming is essentially a client side technology, all the CDN needs to do is ensure that it serves up files with the right mime type (not actually a hard requirement, but many players choke if you don't). Which segment to play next is decided by the player based on current…

> As a content provider, I have to support HLS if I want to support adaptive streaming in iOS. I see. Safari on iOS is still missing MSE? Is Apple doing it to slow down DASH adoption? The other expected problem is codecs. Apple are being sleazy and refuse to support free codecs like VP9 and Opus. So making DASH serving those won't work with Apple too (unless you'll use pure JavaScript decoder which is very not optima…

> Apple are being sleazy and refuse to support free codecs like VP9 and Opus.

> May be Daala / Thor will eventually break their nasty behavior, especially if it will be adopted as mandatory for WebRTC.

I think AV1 (Alliance for Open Media's codec) is likely to be the video codec Apple joins in on, unless it tries to push HEVC. With Intel, AMD and ARM in the group, basically every computing device is going to have hardware support for it so Apple would have to actively cripple it in their hardware to go without.

As for audio, Opus is great for low latency and low bitrate but AAC is widely available and supported and performs better than Opus at high bitrates (which I suspect are more important to Apple than low bitrates). Maybe if Opus becomes part of a telecom spec for VoIP or something Apple will pick it up but I think it's unlikely otherwise.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#227

Post by shmerl »

Veratyr wrote: post #226
shmerl wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a content provider, I have to support HLS if I want to support adaptive streaming in iOS. I see. Safari on iOS is still missing MSE? Is Apple doing it to slow down DASH adoption? The other expected problem is codecs. Apple are being sleazy and refuse to support free codecs like VP9 and Opus. So making DASH serving those won't work with Apple too (unless you'll use pure JavaScript decoder which is very not optima…

> Apple are being sleazy and refuse to support free codecs like VP9 and Opus. > May be Daala / Thor will eventually break their nasty behavior, especially if it will be adopted as mandatory for WebRTC. I think AV1 (Alliance for Open Media's codec) is likely to be the video codec Apple joins in on, unless it tries to push HEVC. With Intel, AMD and ARM in the group, basically every computing device is going to have har…

>Alliance for Open Media

AV1 is the new codename for Daala + Thor? They used to call it NetVC. I hope they'll come up with better name than something that sounds like a virus :)

> As for audio, Opus is great for low latency and low bitrate but AAC is widely available and supported and performs better than Opus at high bitrates

Opus beats AAC even for music from what I saw and provides same quality at lower bitrates. I.e. it has lower transparency level, which means it's simply better overall. See http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm

Plus AAC is not free.

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#228

Post by cpeterso »

AdamTReineke wrote: post #162
cpeterso wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix already has their own Windows desktop app. Because it can use Microsoft's unsandboxed PlayReady DRM, it can play 1080p video while Chrome and Firefox can only play 720p. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/netflix/9wzdncrfj...

I believe, but can't remember offhand, that Netflix will do 1080p in Edge as well.

That's correct. Netflix can do 1080p in IE and Edge (because they use unsandboxed PlayReady) and in Safari (which uses Apple's FairPlay).

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#229

Post by frozenport »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #130
yoz-y wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they do not have a monopoly.

That is true. But they are in a position of incredible power. They have control over a lot of what people see online, by virtue of controlling what people find when they search. They're so ingrained in society that they're a verb . Their staff have had remarkable access to the White House and other government institutions. No, not a monopoly...but they're not far from potentially becoming one.

On search they are a monopoly, what if they said Google Search will only run on Chrome?

Re: Google moves to replace Flash with HTML5

#230

Post by yaur »

fixermark wrote: post #138
yaur wrote: post #73

While the focus is rightly on video, there are a huge number of games written in flash. In the short term this s probably a hug boost for unity... But as flash dies there will be a lot of games that die with it.

Unity is itself a proprietary, single-vendor, closed-source plugin. Though I don't disagree at all, transitioning from one proprietary, single-vendor, closed-source plugin to another isn't actually going to solve the problems that killing Flash is supposed to solve (apart from the one where Flash is also a gigantic legacy-code monument to all our sins, of course ;) ).

Chrome already killed the unity plugin which is what really lit a fire under there ass to get WebGL working well. Its reasonable now, at least for some types of games.
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