How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds • Hacker News Board

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#171

Post by elementalest » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:19 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #159

mc32 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and the article and further... Many companies are trying to take search, for example, to the next level by brining predictability through your history as well as your graph. It takes decisionmaking out of people's minds. "You show a history of reading this and that book, have watched these movies and your circle of meaningful people have influenced you thus, so we have this book on its way to you now…

You can look at it as removing our humanity, or you can look at it as supplementing our humanity. Prior to the written word, we had to devote time and effort to passing down information through the spoken word. By offloading this task to an external device (wall, tablet, parchment, paper, book, screen), we've been able to use that time and brainpower to focus on other items, while also increasing the fidelity of our…

Whilst i somewhat agree with the sentiment, the difference now is in the amount of efficiencies or benefits gained. The gains/benefits from tools, farming, writing etc, are quite large. The gains from an app suggesting a movie or book, or reminding you to do various things in your life, are quite small in comparison. It might be merely a matter of a few minutes.

It begs the question, is it worth gaining a few minutes here and there each day for the price of dependence on apps and a degree of disconnection from what makes us human?

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#172

Post by gohrt » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:20 PM UTC

cpt1138 wrote: post #68

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, yeah. It's like talking to climate "skeptics" - people who believe climate change is real but disagree on the level of human agency. You can show them graph after graph of greenhouse gas emissions being pumped into the atmosphere at alarming rates and they'll say "I'm not that alarmed, we don't know how much of an impact it will have." Meanwhile, coral reefs are bleaching, Florida is flooding, and we are experie…

But what? The problem with the constant doom is that we get exhausted. At least in the US all we truly care about is war and old people (looking at where the money goes; http://whatwepayfor.com/ ). The problem with the doom sayers is they have no solutions or actionable items that we can say yes or no to. Its just lions and tigers and bears 24/7.

Transfer payments to old people aren't mentally exhausting.

What's interesting is what those old people spend the money on. macroscopically, what matters is what money motivates people to do, who handles the money is just a means.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#173

Post by gohrt » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:22 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #135

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dangerous doesn't mean too dangerous. Nuclear energy is dangerous but any projection of energy use that accommodates growing population and energy usage AND expects carbon reductions AND doesn't include growing nuclear use is simply impossible. EDIT: Also worth noting that there is a clear correlation between the increase of electronics/battery recycling in the West and lead poisoning cases in Kenyan children where t…

Nuclear power can be done safe, but we also have many examples of it not being done safe. Saying, "well it will be different this time. We will build systems to make corruption, laziness, and dangerous actions impossible!" is believing in a pipe dream.

Coal power can be done safe, but we also have many examples of it not being done safe. Saying, "well it will be different this time. We will build systems to make corruption, laziness, and dangerous actions impossible!" is believing in a pipe dream.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#174

Post by pessimizer » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:23 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #102

pessimizer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile the choice of buying less was never presented as an option. What do you mean here? There were always multiple sizes of soda. Bloomberg was the one who was introducing the restriction, requiring someone who wanted more than a particular size to buy it in two separate cups. I must be parsing this incorrectly.

The small size for a movie theater soda often starts at about 24oz. Getting less than that is not an option. There's been studies that when you put more food or drink in front of someone, they'll consume, even if they aren't particularly hungry or thirsty. Hence, the inflated soda sizes were adding thousands of extra calories that people otherwise wouldn't have wanted.

Thanks, I didn't think about the massive movie theater tankards. Seems like that could be solved by requiring that they offer a smaller size, rather than requiring that they not offer a larger one.

I've always thought that government could help a lot just by requiring that they sell tap water in cups of the same size as the cups of sugar water, and at cost. As it is, the choice is usually between a thimbleful of water, or a bottled water that is (other than being wasteful, environmentally horrible, and sending money to those same sugar water companies) sometimes more expensive than the soda.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#175

Post by henrik_w » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:24 PM UTC

I just finished reading "Deep Work" by Cal Newport - great book. The central theme of the book is that you need distraction-free focus to do your best work (especially relevant for programmers I think). Social media goes against this - constantly checking HN, Twitter or FB breaks this focus. He basically recommends to quit altogether. A good start is to try and go a full day with checking any social media - it's harder than it sounds.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#176

Post by Clanan » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:24 PM UTC

lars wrote: post #30

Wow, I'm glad this was posted. I think the way we use technology today will be looked back on the same way we look back at naive cigarette smoking in the 1950s. Modern app design isn't about creating things that are good for the user, but about creating want in the user. This is a problem. For example, there are several studies showing that using Facebook in general makes people less happy. User happiness just happen…

I think this hearkens back to the "great power, great responsibility" cliche. The power of technology requires mature, responsible users and creators. But it's very difficult to be either of those.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#177

Post by nnd » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:26 PM UTC

Nothing new here. If anyone is interested to learn about these mechanisms in death there is a great book "Hooked" by Nir Eval.

The real problem here are the users. If they keep unconsciously falling for the same tricks over and over again, rather than taking a stand and rejecting manipulative products, there is no incentive for product makers to create product which are _not_ manipulative. You can compare it to eating junk food, rather than choosing healthy options.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#178

Post by gohrt » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:27 PM UTC

grillvogel wrote: post #140

mc32 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and the article and further... Many companies are trying to take search, for example, to the next level by brining predictability through your history as well as your graph. It takes decisionmaking out of people's minds. "You show a history of reading this and that book, have watched these movies and your circle of meaningful people have influenced you thus, so we have this book on its way to you now…

I'm convinced we are going to reach a point where people trust what the computer tells them more than their own eyes.

I hope so. Eyes are awful at discerning truth in important microscopic phenomena, and brains are horrible at remembering what the eyes saw.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#179

Post by kbenson » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:27 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #167

kbenson wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can look at it as removing our humanity, or you can look at it as supplementing our humanity. Prior to the written word, we had to devote time and effort to passing down information through the spoken word. By offloading this task to an external device (wall, tablet, parchment, paper, book, screen), we've been able to use that time and brainpower to focus on other items, while also increasing the fidelity of our…

I'm aware of all that. We have come a long way since being "savage". My issue is we're getting to the last mile problem where we begin to undermine what we are.

My point is that I don't think "what we are" is changed by the tools we use. So what if a tool suggests we take time out for our friend? It's still our choice. It's no different than your mother, father, significant other, or random person on the street offering a suggestion if you explained the situation to them. Ultimately it's your choice what to do.

If you're unhappy with how people treat some things as worthy of their attention and others as something they can delegate to others, that's not a technology problem, that's a problem you have with cultural norms. Culture is the original hijacker of our minds, and all we're seeing is people is people acting in a way that's slightly different than what you think is acceptable based on your culture, and fighting back against it. Not because it's inherently wrong, or worse, but because it's different, and culture resists large change.

Re: How Technology Hijacks People’s Minds

#180

Post by jflatow » Fri, May 20, 2016, 6:29 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #166

facetube wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd wholeheartedly support wealth taxes if I trusted the social safety net and health care system in my country. Until then, I'll hoard money out of fear: I don't have anything I'm intending to spend it on and hopefully never will. Fix health care and there'd be a high probability of the chains coming off off, at least for me.

The trick to taxes is in getting them right. Taxes are, to a rough analog, like the vacuum hose system within an automobile engine. (Hrm: I'm thinking that this may be a bad analogy if there aren't many auto gearheads here.) An internal combustion engine is essentially a self-powered air pump. It has a low-pressure end (intake) and high-pressure end (exhaust). It's got various bits and pieces which need powering. Cha…

This just begs the question though, what is the right way to tax?

Assuming that you are redistributing wealth (as you describe above), taxing wealth instead of income has a profound effect. It creates an incentive for every individual to increase the total wealth in the system, no matter who creates it, or where it's created. When you tax income, it makes no difference to you whether the income was created wealth, or merely captured.