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What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

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Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#21

Post by pjc50 »

elgabogringo wrote: post #10

I'm a Republican. Been working in or for valley companies since 1998. Engineering then business. The last five years I've felt my views become increasingly marginalized. The left in the valley has become increasingly vocal, from the c-suite down, and I've been reluctant to express my views for fear of retaliation (See Mozilla's ex-CEO.) The valley isn't a place focused on the innovation and free thinking that gave it…

Whereas the right has had a long history of old-media control, especially in the UK: http://leftfootforward.org/2013/06/everyone-should-know-who-...

The US has the Koch brothers: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/27/koch-brothers-media...

"Narcissistic, self-righteous, power-obsessed business leaders" are something of a universal problem which the 'left' has often campaigned against, in the interest of a more level playing field. Here the US conflation of 'left', 'socialist' and 'liberal' becomes a problem in describing the politics, because while 'liberal' and 'progressive' can reasonably be attached to wealthy men in some circumstances, 'socialist' really can't.

It's also interesting how the "right" have traditionally been in favour of the right of businesses to pursue profits regardless of the negative consequences to others, but now that involves throwing extreme right-wing media under the bus this comes into question. Glenn Beck manages to stick to his principles here.

And I agree strongly with sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11737943

The media situation is not symmetrical. It's not so much left vs right or even true vs false, it's "well-thought out" vs (there is no nicer way of putting it) "bullshit". The "Views on shape of Earth differ" style of journalism is irresponsible.

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#22

Post by elgabogringo »

chubot wrote: post #14
elgabogringo wrote: post #10

I'm a Republican. Been working in or for valley companies since 1998. Engineering then business. The last five years I've felt my views become increasingly marginalized. The left in the valley has become increasingly vocal, from the c-suite down, and I've been reluctant to express my views for fear of retaliation (See Mozilla's ex-CEO.) The valley isn't a place focused on the innovation and free thinking that gave it…

I was with you until the third paragraph. You're engaging in the same kind of extreme stereotyping that you're complaining about. Those guys probably disagree profoundly with you; it doesn't mean they are evil narcissists out of a dystopian novel.

You mean these CEO's narcissistic, self-righteous, power-obsessed business leaders? Pretty sure they are.

You mean they aren't helping the US Gov't spy on us? Pretty sure they are.

You mean they aren't throwing their economic weight around in the USA to oppose republican measures while cutting deals with oppressive totalitarian leaders (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.) in order to sell product? Pretty sure they are.

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#23

Post by pjc50 »

twoodfin wrote: post #20
FussyZeus wrote: post #15

> "What happened to us?" The thing that drove me, a lifelong conservative, into the arms of Bernie Sanders; the Republican party (and the conservative group in particular) are so hard core on social issues that are to be blunt, disgusting (things like preventing homosexual marriage and abortion) and completely antithetical to the idea of "keeping government out of things." No I don't like everything the Left wants to…

While the question you wanted to answer is a great question to be asking in the era of Trump, that's not the question that Beck was asking. "What happened to us?" in this context was, "Why are supposedly conservative groups telling Facebook how to run their business, using many of the same tactics and arguments they've objected to when used by their ideological opponents?"

This very much matters in the era of Trump. The reason there's no ideological consistency is that the publicly-stated ideology is backformed from the private, unacceptable ideology of maintaining racial and economic inequality.

That's why suddenly these people are in favour of "affirmative action" when it benefits themselves; there's no principle at stake other than self-interest.

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#25

Post by pigpaws »

FussyZeus wrote: post #15

> "What happened to us?" The thing that drove me, a lifelong conservative, into the arms of Bernie Sanders; the Republican party (and the conservative group in particular) are so hard core on social issues that are to be blunt, disgusting (things like preventing homosexual marriage and abortion) and completely antithetical to the idea of "keeping government out of things." No I don't like everything the Left wants to…

did you just say that you want to keep 'government out of things', and then support Bernie Sanders?

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#26

Post by pjc50 »

elgabogringo wrote: post #22
chubot wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was with you until the third paragraph. You're engaging in the same kind of extreme stereotyping that you're complaining about. Those guys probably disagree profoundly with you; it doesn't mean they are evil narcissists out of a dystopian novel.

You mean these CEO's narcissistic, self-righteous, power-obsessed business leaders? Pretty sure they are. You mean they aren't helping the US Gov't spy on us? Pretty sure they are. You mean they aren't throwing their economic weight around in the USA to oppose republican measures while cutting deals with oppressive totalitarian leaders (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.) in order to sell product? Pretty sure they are.

But is this a "liberal vs conservative" issue or a "big money vs the public" issue?

There are plenty of other companies that throw their weight around to oppose Democrats while cutting deals with totalitarians. And other companies that donate to both sides just to make sure, such as the arms industry?

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#27

Post by twoodfin »

pjc50 wrote: post #23
twoodfin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the question you wanted to answer is a great question to be asking in the era of Trump, that's not the question that Beck was asking. "What happened to us?" in this context was, "Why are supposedly conservative groups telling Facebook how to run their business, using many of the same tactics and arguments they've objected to when used by their ideological opponents?"

This very much matters in the era of Trump. The reason there's no ideological consistency is that the publicly-stated ideology is backformed from the private, unacceptable ideology of maintaining racial and economic inequality. That's why suddenly these people are in favour of "affirmative action" when it benefits themselves; there's no principle at stake other than self-interest.

I think that's massively oversimplifying. Many Republicans really do believe things like: "A nationwide $15 minimum wage would have profoundly negative economic consequences both for small businesses unable to defray the added labor cost, and for the employees they'd otherwise be able to hire."

You can disagree with that belief, but it's not rooted in racism and classism.

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#28

Post by swehner »

To pretend or make out that you're some kind of marginalized group, that you're being ignored or exploited or taken advantage of or just not getting what you're supposed to be entitled to, and that you're afraid and worried and unhappy -- it sounds so lame and cheap, and in the end, boring.

Never heared of this guy, but doesn't seem I missed anything.

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#29

Post by jessaustin »

YPCrumble wrote: post #19
elgabogringo wrote: post #10

I'm a Republican. Been working in or for valley companies since 1998. Engineering then business. The last five years I've felt my views become increasingly marginalized. The left in the valley has become increasingly vocal, from the c-suite down, and I've been reluctant to express my views for fear of retaliation (See Mozilla's ex-CEO.) The valley isn't a place focused on the innovation and free thinking that gave it…

Do you have any proposed solutions to these issues? I'm asking because I can't think of any that aren't extremely liberal in character, like government putting limits on these businesses or affirmative action for conservatives, as Beck discusses in the article. Perhaps he's wrong but your complaints of being "marginalized" and against the "money and power" of big business don't sound traditionally conservative. The t…

Even conservatives aren't that foolish.

Re: What disturbed me about the Facebook meeting

#30

Post by pigpaws »

010a wrote: post #18
specialist wrote: post #2

Please add the pundit's name [Glenn Beck] in the submission.

Its hilarious how this comment alone exemplifies exactly what he's talking about when he says that conservative voices are being marginalized in silicon valley. We need to make sure we brand the post with his name so us cushy liberals can be protected from these mean and different viewpoints, right?

yes, but at the same time, Glen Beck represents the more 'religious' aspect of the far-right. That's the whole issue with the right (IMO) is that it was hijacked by the (Hypocritical) religious people, whereas there was almost NO ONE representing the right-center folks who are fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal/acceptable (live and let live).

I already know who my state with vote for, which allows me to vote who I want to (Gary Johnson). The 2-party setup (debates, etc...) won't allow anyone in who doesn't identify to one extreme or the other.

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