Here's an question that should pair up pretty well to the API copyright-ability question. Is the list of words and their order in a dictionary copyrightable?
CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
151–160 of 189 posts
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Of course declaring code is code. The clue is in the name, "declaring CODE". This doesn't follow, sometimes language does unexpected things. E.g. a dwarf planet isn't a planet.
Yes, because dwarf persons aren't persons, right?
Did I say something offensive?
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#153I am curious about the implications of this lawsuit for Free SW. Claiming copyright over the Java API is not that far from claiming copyright over a C header, and most projects do just that. On the one hand, RMS has said that "just using structure definitions, typedefs, enumeration constants, macros with simple bodies, etc., is NOT enough to make a derivative work. It would take a substantial amount of code (coming f…
Why does being a "derivative work" depend on the copyright status of the original work?
Because Free SW licenses only apply to copyrighted works.
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple were not the first smartphones. Without even nitpicking on Palm, etc, you're forgetting Blackberry.
I wouldn't call the blackberries smartphones. They were feature phones where one of the features was a proprietary email system.
There were touch-screen smartphones with no keyboards before the iPhone...
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/O2-Unveils-Xda-Orbit-Smar...
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#155So let's say I have a file PayYourSalary.scala, and somewhere in that file there is a method:
def payEmployeeForOneDay(rate: Int, minutesWorked: Int = 8) = {
// other stuff here
}
That's a declaration but it certainly looks like a bug in the code to me!
Larry is being absurd.
If it's in a file with a .java extension (or .scala, or .c or even .h) it's code. If it's source that a compiler or interpreter sucks in then it's code.
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure I understand why forking OpenJDK would have been legally distinct from a from-scratch re-implementation. In both cases, Google is re-using the APIs that Oracle is claiming ownership over. EDIT: I just realised that OpenJDK is released by Oracle. Never mind!
Exactly. And, let's be honest, the position Google took would have been supported by Sun. They would have wanted other implementations of their API. Oracle is only doing this because they can. They have the money. They have the desire (to fuck with Google). So they do it. I really don't get the anger toward Google. I don't think they did anything wrong here. If they did, it will haunt a lot of other companies than ju…
> I really don't get the anger toward Google. I don't think they did anything wrong here.
If you check the internal email records, I suspect you'll find that Google thought that it was doing something wrong....
http://www.fosspatents.com/2016/05/heres-mountain-of-willful...
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#157Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#158What's most striking to me is how easily this could have been avoided, everybody knew what liabilities would arise from betting your entire mobile platform on the goodwill of a competitor. With the massively overqualified talent pool Google hoards, they could absolutely have implemented a completely new language, compiler, and VM themselves. I'm sure this alternative must have been at least on the table. Does anyone…
Android's success was that its foundations was something the community knew. Java was either #1 or #2 of most popular language and their was a vast mind share that could be utilized. A new language for a new mobile platform would have been disastrous. Could you imagine someone saying her is our phone everyone learn it and make great apps for launch in 6 months?
Yes I can absolutely imagine that. I believe such a decision would have been welcomed enthusiastically. Early adopters of a new hardware/OS platform are extremely easy to win over with an exciting new language. Others would have followed in good time.
Don't you see all those "why we switched from language A to language B" stories that seem to come up every other day? No need to read them. The content is not important. All they ever mean to say is "we were so bored with that old language and now we're thrilled to try something new!"
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#159Is it Oracle's position that all implementations of the Java APIs (or partial implementations) are illegal, unless it's specifically allowed by Oracle? That sounds ludicrous. What about unit testing libraries, for example?
It is clearly not ludicrous, as this fight has been going on for 6 years now. Oracle believes in it, and of course their well-compensated lawyers believe in it. What I don't understand is WHY Oracle wants to go through with long legal battle. They make good revenue on their database ecosystem as well as some other products of dubious value (has anyone ever enjoyed Oracle EBS?). They've secured their interests in Java…
Doesn't this action also warn other companies away from using Java (or any other Oracle technology) for anything ever again? It would if I were running a company or had purchasing power.
I'm guessing that Oracle is looking at the short term gains and ignoring the long term impacts. Business as usual in the corporate world. :/
Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”
#160Maybe Google could spend a few billion dollars helping Oracle customers move to PostgreSQL.
I think if I were Google I would be moving everything I have access to non-Oracle technologies. If that means porting Dalvik to Rust/Swift/Go then so be it. Basically, blackball Java and suck all the air out of the room.