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Keep your identity small (2009)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#111

Post by sysk »

eivarv wrote: post #109
tomp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atheism is faith just like any other; belief that no god exists is just as substantiated (i.e. not at all) and provable (i.e. not at all) as the belief that particular god(s) exist.

What sysk is saying that atheism is not the belief that no god exists, but rather the lack of a belief in a god. It's also not as if any two unsubstantiated and unprovable positions are just as likely to be true; see Russell's teapot[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Yes, that's what I meant.

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#112

Post by axelfreeman »

sysk wrote: post #90
athenot wrote: post #53

I don't think it's so much about identity as it is about (in)security. Regarding politics, I completely follow his argument: I don't identify with any party and like to think I'm evaluating each policy on its on merits and according to my personal beliefs. Which leads me to the other one. I happen to be Catholic and strongly believe in the mental and societal framework put forth by that theology. However, I'm more th…

Just a nitpick but atheism is not a faith, it's the absence of faith.

If you don't care if a god exist or not and never thought about it then its not a faith. ;-)

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#113

Post by kecks »

sysk wrote: post #90
athenot wrote: post #53

I don't think it's so much about identity as it is about (in)security. Regarding politics, I completely follow his argument: I don't identify with any party and like to think I'm evaluating each policy on its on merits and according to my personal beliefs. Which leads me to the other one. I happen to be Catholic and strongly believe in the mental and societal framework put forth by that theology. However, I'm more th…

Just a nitpick but atheism is not a faith, it's the absence of faith.

An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of god(s); a theist is the opposite and believes in the existence of god(s). The difference lies in lack of faith v. faith.

An agnostic believes it's not possible to be sure whether one or more gods exist.

Combinations are possibly; an agnostic theist believes in the existence of gods, but also thinks it's impossible to be sure.

There are also apathetic agnostics; they don't know nor care whether one or more gods exist. This usually seems to go with atheism.

I suppose there should also be a word like nontheists; those who have faith in the non-existence of gods.

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#114

Post by collyw »

sysk wrote: post #90
athenot wrote: post #53

I don't think it's so much about identity as it is about (in)security. Regarding politics, I completely follow his argument: I don't identify with any party and like to think I'm evaluating each policy on its on merits and according to my personal beliefs. Which leads me to the other one. I happen to be Catholic and strongly believe in the mental and societal framework put forth by that theology. However, I'm more th…

Just a nitpick but atheism is not a faith, it's the absence of faith.

Disagree. Atheists believe there is no god (without any conclusive evidence).

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#116

Post by collyw »

rcxdude wrote: post #108
tomp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atheism is faith just like any other; belief that no god exists is just as substantiated (i.e. not at all) and provable (i.e. not at all) as the belief that particular god(s) exist.

Depends on your precise definition. Most atheists consider atheism the lack of belief in a god, as opposed to the belief that there is no god. The distinction is important.

Most people I know who claim to be atheists seem to believe there is not god, despite not being able to prove it. Agnostics seem to be the most honest ones....

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#117

Post by collyw »

wastedhours wrote: post #110
tomp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it does. But it requires faith , i.e. belief into something that is fundamentally unprovable.

Still depending on definitions, but faith is the belief in something. Not accepting that there's anything to have belief in is something separate, and grouping a-theism with different types of theism isn't a usually accepted argument. I appreciate the angle you're taking, but the semantics of it are important.

Many of them believe in a big bang, that came from nothing where the laws of physics don't apply, and created the universe...... (Sounds almost as crazy as religion to me).

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#118

Post by wastedhours »

collyw wrote: post #117
wastedhours wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still depending on definitions, but faith is the belief in something. Not accepting that there's anything to have belief in is something separate, and grouping a-theism with different types of theism isn't a usually accepted argument. I appreciate the angle you're taking, but the semantics of it are important.

Many of them believe in a big bang, that came from nothing where the laws of physics don't apply, and created the universe...... (Sounds almost as crazy as religion to me).

"Many" perhaps, but Atheism != scientific belief.

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#120

Post by Throwaway585250 »

sannysanoff wrote: post #89

The story about the person who kept his identity small, during WW2 ( https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392 ) : """ First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they…

The two more or less inescapable identities are "human" and "yourself". I read this essay as saying that you should embrace both of these, and nothing more.

A socialist, a trade unionist, and a Jew are still all people. You should be a human being, and treat others as such. If your identity is, as per your example, "right-wing", "German", "Christian", "pagan", "working class", or "member of the NSDAP", then you may not feel that your shared humanity is more important than your other identities.

I don't know which reading is correct, but I prefer mine.

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