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PG on trolls

paulgraham.com

81–90 of 190 posts

Re: PG on trolls

#81
post #79
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mustn't goals themselves be good or bad, regardless of whether they're achievable? Or would you say that goals, such as Hitler's, were bad only b/c eugenics ultimately would be bad from an evolutionary point of view? Then, there is a the problem of heroism, which is defined by a person's courage to pursue a noble goal even if its achievement is very unlikely. Finally, by your definition, I could be one of the most mo…

These are just starting points. I do think goals are themselves good or bad, but it's much harder to explain how you can objectively make assertions like that, so I wanted to make the lesser claim, for now: there are ways to explore morality objectively. I'm definitely not claiming consistency of this sort is the only criterion of morality. Only that it's an important and objective one. I don't mean to be a tease, bu…

Ah, good. I figured I wasn't getting the whole picture. Something similar to objectivism makes sense to me. I think there is such a thing as human nature, so everyone is ultimately made happy by the same things, at a certain granularity. Morality's objectively good goal, in your framework, is to maximize happiness.

However, at this point I have to veer into territory considered "religious," because such a claim requires at least an element of non-materialism to make sense of our moral intuitions.

At any rate, my views are not rigorously defined enough, and I'd benefit from critical, constructive discussion. I'll check out your links and see if I can participate.

Re: PG on trolls

#82
post #80
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If chains of trust could be widely and rigorously established online, most (maybe all?) of the big problems we have today would be gone.

It would be a good thing. If anyone wants to apply to YC with that kind of idea, we'd be into it.

I had thought facebook would be the beginning of this, but it seems to be a flash in the pan, and too locked in to really be effective.

Re: PG on trolls

#83

Who is this guy and what authority does he have to write about these topics? I haven't read the essay, but there's no way anything so short and written in such an informal style could have anything useful to say about such and such topic, when people with degrees in the subject have already written many thick books about it.

So apparently Paul can't keep trolling from happening on News.YC afterall.

But, as anewaccountname shows, at least the trolls here do it with style. Well played, anewaccountname.

Re: PG on trolls

#84
post #65

The Reddit thread is kind of sad. http://reddit.com/info/68zz4/comments/

It's more than kind of sad, it's pathetic.

My favorite (upmodded 26 points as of 9pst):

Regarding News.YC: "Your ancient ritual has summoned me to News.YC so those tight-assed holier-than-thou fucktards can be shown the error of their ways. Maybe the reason there aren't trolls is because NOBODY FUCKING VISITS THEIR SHITTY SITE."-- terwin, Reddit

Re: PG on trolls

#85
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than kind of sad, it's pathetic.

My favorite (upmodded 26 points as of 9pst): Regarding News.YC: "Your ancient ritual has summoned me to News.YC so those tight-assed holier-than-thou fucktards can be shown the error of their ways. Maybe the reason there aren't trolls is because NOBODY FUCKING VISITS THEIR SHITTY SITE."-- terwin, Reddit

It surprises me that people can indict others with the adjective "holier-than-thou" and not feel ashamed of themselves. The word screams, "I'm going to bring you down to my level!"

Re: PG on trolls

#86
post #74
post #63

I don't think "distance" is the primary cause of asshole behavior by automobile drivers, though it does sound like a convenient first approximation. If I was walking down the street with a $20,000 ming vase, and you were running around nearly hitting me, I'd probably swear at you. Likewise, if you were running around on the street wielding a sharp katana, I'd probably swear at you. A car is both as expensive as a min…

Aside: The elegant symmetry with which this metaphor crosses three cultures is absurd, baffling, and truly humbling. What lead you to conjure that up? What is it that you are reading?

Hagakure.

Re: PG on trolls

#87
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than kind of sad, it's pathetic.

My favorite (upmodded 26 points as of 9pst): Regarding News.YC: "Your ancient ritual has summoned me to News.YC so those tight-assed holier-than-thou fucktards can be shown the error of their ways. Maybe the reason there aren't trolls is because NOBODY FUCKING VISITS THEIR SHITTY SITE."-- terwin, Reddit

THIS IS A GREAT SITE!!!! but it's got some kind of anti-troll field protecting it. The most perfect trolling oppertunities always seem to degenerate into civilized rational discussion.

Re: PG on trolls

#88
PG misses an important perspective, cyberbullies!

People who bully other people because they have better computer knowledge, mainly the two areas of administration and programming

The thing is learning, working ... are both hard, and many ppl got screwed or unlucky over their lives, they either learned useless crap at school or university, or work at non interesting jobs with bad bosses or collegues

And sometimes, we are humans, we are attracked to certain aspects of what we try to learn to escape, or trying to improve upon our bad lack

And sometimes the cyberbullies call us trolls. It's okay, thought, better be a troll than a bully, the thing is, in time we will learn, and on that road we will have fun, and, the road will not end, and it will meet plenty of bullies, and overtime we will learn to be quiet, for the next person we talk to, and dare to show to them that we don't know, might just be, the next bully ... who will accuse me of being troll ... or that other word incompetent.

But the bully don't see, just like the one in the school yard, its just a school yard, don't take yourself too seriously, its just a forum or irc!

I am reading chatting and enjoying my time, until you came and changed the game, ... thou shall not speak! and now the book seller might have won, for you know, thought can't do teach! And most of the blogs I read were just trolls!

Re: PG on trolls

#89
I just want to point out an issue with a small point Paul brings up, and that issue is how Karma works on YC versus Reddit.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but there is a tradeoff. On Reddit, you can be rude, and people can downmod you, and it doesn't matter once the post sinks. Here, if you act like an asshole, you get downmodded, and your karma suffers. But even if you make a well reasoned, but controversial comment, you often do still get downmodded because of your unpopular views.

Not that I comment here often, but I'm at four down from seven at one point, and it's really the logical consequence of such a system. It seems to work here, but I do wonder, as Paul expresses near the end of his article here, does this technique scale?

Re: PG on trolls

#90
post #72
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't entirely agree. I have seen quite a few comments that were extremely insightful, and/or interesting that got downmodded due to an unpopular opinion. The reason this is unfortunate is not only that you tend to miss these (assuming that there is a higher probability that you read or think about comments that are rated higher, which I am surely not the only one that is guilty of) but also that it tends to promot…

Highly downmodded comments stand out to me almost as much as highly upmodded comments.

I wish I had more votes to downmod you into prominence! J/k, I upmodded (for agreement)
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