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Keep your identity small (2009)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#91

Post by enord »

sysk wrote: post #90
athenot wrote: post #53

I don't think it's so much about identity as it is about (in)security. Regarding politics, I completely follow his argument: I don't identify with any party and like to think I'm evaluating each policy on its on merits and according to my personal beliefs. Which leads me to the other one. I happen to be Catholic and strongly believe in the mental and societal framework put forth by that theology. However, I'm more th…

Just a nitpick but atheism is not a faith, it's the absence of faith.

Do you identify as atheist? Is the distinction important to you? Grouping different religious views together with atheism under the same category is useful when discussing people and their beliefs. Arguing the semantics of wether Atheism is a "belief" or "faith" (or some nicer, more certain-sounding term) is in my experience unfruitful and most often besides the point. /nitpick

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#92

Post by lucb1e »

sannysanoff wrote: post #89

The story about the person who kept his identity small, during WW2 ( https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392 ) : """ First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they…

> I did not speak out

Even if you are not a jew, why couldn't you have a discussion about jews? In fact, isn't that Paul Graham's entire point, that if it's not part of your identity (i.e. you're not a jew), you can have a much more reasonable conversation about it?

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#93

Post by davidiach »

reedlaw wrote: post #55

This is the weakest pg essay I've come across. I can think of so many counter-examples. "Stand for nothing and you'll fall for anything." It's very convenient to have a small identity with few convictions because convictions are costly. Sophie Scholl identified with anti-Nazi politics and it cost her her life. We have a word for people like her: hero.

The way I understand "keep your identity small" is something like don't broadcast your identity all the time. That's a position antithetical to narcissism.

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#94

Post by adrianratnapala »

sannysanoff wrote: post #89

The story about the person who kept his identity small, during WW2 ( https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392 ) : """ First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they…

This is almost the opposite of keeping your identity small.

The point is not that this person should have expanded his identity till he was a Socialist. The point is that there are principles that you should stand up for in the defense of people outside your identity group.

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#95

Post by chillacy »

newjersey wrote: post #68
reedlaw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His main examples of identity were politics and religion.

I think it is possible/fairly safe to cheer for the Denver Bronco's or the New York Yankees, or Crystal Palace football club or Team SoloMid or whatever without making that one's identity. Edit: Just now, someone showed me a video which claimed drinking apple cider vinegar helped prevent cancer. I tried to say that this is billshit because nobody can really say drinking something prevents cancer without a long-term s…

Regarding sports teams and identity, I suspect the guy who says "wow good game" after their home team loses and the guy who feels crummy for a week is the extent that they identify with the team. I had a brief stint with that in college with my college football team. The wins felt like giant ego rushes and the losses felt like I had lost a million bucks.

Now I can pretend to cheer but I don't really care as much.

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#97

Post by chillacy »

pbreit wrote: post #86
pystack wrote: post #34

I've realized there are things I can change and there are things I cannot change. I try not to feel too strongly on the things I cannot change, because it distracts me from the things I can change. For politics, I try not to feel too strongly about Trump and the electoral process. I would still vote, but I know it would have a minimal impact, no matter how strongly I feel. Instead, I focus my energy on my business, w…

I think Suster was going there today: https://twitter.com/msuster/status/733330477046587392 People waste so much energy trying to change others when they could change themselves with practically no effort.

> People waste so much energy trying to change others when they could change themselves with practically no effort.

Seriously on point. A lot of the former happening on the internet, probably because it's easier to complain.

The greatest takeaway I've gotten from the stoic philosophy: For obstacles we face we can either accept them or work on changing them. Worry and complaint are unnecessary, for if we accept, then we are at peace, and if we work to change them, we are on the right path.

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#98

Post by peferron »

sannysanoff wrote: post #89

The story about the person who kept his identity small, during WW2 ( https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392 ) : """ First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they…

Um. Are you missing the entire point of the quote, or am I?

I understand the quote as meaning that we should speak out even when groups we do not identify with are being oppressed.

But you seem to understand the quote as meaning that we should identify with as many groups as possible.

I very much doubt the author of the quote meant it the way you do, and even if they did it just sounds very wrong. It's expected and accepted to not care about any other group than the ones you identify with then? I do not identify as LGBT or as a woman, so I should not speak out for LGBT and women's rights? What about groups that will remain small because you can't just decide one day to identify with them, they're screwed?

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#99

Post by tomp »

ixtli wrote: post #74

> any mention of religion on an online forum degenerates into a religious argument. Why? Why does this happen with religion and not with Javascript Then later > the question of the relative merits of programming languages often degenerates into a religious war, because so many programmers identify as X programmers or Y programmers. Also as another poster said, this works because he's been able to go his entire life c…

His conclusion is still valid even in presence of immutable labels; you can't help being black or gay, but you can help by not being religious or a "Python programmer".

Re: Keep your identity small (2009)

#100

Post by pete_b »

It's usually inappropriate to draw in politics and religion when they are off topic, but sometimes they are involved. Ethics are involved frequently with technology, so politics and religion are not that far off.

Though really, It's pretty shallow to draw like for like comparisons between religion/politics and JS discussions. JS is trivial. Most tech discussions are trivial the day after they've been had.

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