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Advertising is devastating to my well-being

briancarper.net

121–130 of 148 posts

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#121
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the sentiment, that's a whole heck of a love of evolution to work against. Nature (think of life on the Serengeti) is all about screwing over one creature for the benefit of another.

Which is why society didn't evolve, it was designed. Only design can create global states which are contrary to local conditions.

What do you mean?

"Design" as in the memetic evolution has an unnaturally recursive feedback system compared to our biological evolution, thus producing patterns of regularity determined by initial tiny quirks? Or what the people who downmodded you seem to think you meant?

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#122
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human survival and wealth depend on voluntary production and trade. That is already baked into the evolutionary cake. If human behavior ever became "all about screwing over" other people, initiating force, and taking property without consent, then the human race would die out. Of course, a small portion of humans can and do live that way, but that is an aberration. If it ever becomes the norm, misery, illness, povert…

> If human behavior ever became "all about screwing over" other people, initiating force, and taking property without consent, Humans have been doing these things for as long as there have been humans... > then the human race would die out. ...and this hasn't happened. Ergo, your argument is wrong.

You are not responding to the argument that I made.

I said that if such behavior ever became the norm, the human race would die. As of now, only a small portion of humans behave this way. This happy fact enables humans to survive.

However, on the basis of your comment I will scale back my argument a bit. It might be possible for some humans to survive in a movie fantasy post-apocalyptic world of pure rampaging feral aggression. But the number would be very few. It would consist of a few people picking berries and hunting rabbits in secret, and gangs of others occasionally sniffing them out and looting them.

In reality, in order for a human being to survive, he must have things and services produced by other humans. He can't do it all himself. If he wants to ensure that other humans continue to produce the things he needs, the best way is to offer something in return.

Certainly voluntary trade is not his only option. He could plead hardship and gain some sympathy that way. He could commit fraud, deceiving others into giving him what he wants. He could use force to take what he wants.

But ultimately all of these options are limited and fraught with risks of their own. Why risk death when you can just wash a few dishes instead?

So yes, humans have been doing stupid evil things for as long as there have been humans, and they will continue to do so. My point is, stupidity and evil are not sustainable or reliable methods for achieving life, happiness, health, and wealth. That is why they are called "stupid" and "evil."

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#123
post #98
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human survival and wealth depend on voluntary production and trade. That is already baked into the evolutionary cake. If human behavior ever became "all about screwing over" other people, initiating force, and taking property without consent, then the human race would die out. Of course, a small portion of humans can and do live that way, but that is an aberration. If it ever becomes the norm, misery, illness, povert…

While cooperation makes logical sense. The statistics and study of human behaviour indicate that far from being an aberration "red in tooth and claw" is far more the norm. Don't mistake culture and societal norms for the norms of natrual human behavior.

What statistics? Why do you differentiate between "cultural and societal norms" and "natural human behavior?" Cultural and societal norms are natural human behaviors.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#124
post #93

Stop making the world a garish and hideous place to live by flooding it with ads. There are people so soft that they consider the world a "hideous place to live" because of some advertising? There are people who can barely eat each day without getting so offended by a few commercials. It so happens that advertisements are devastating to my well-being. This is crazy talk. Is it even possible to argue against someone w…

When was the last time animal crackers flashed an almost pornographic image at you while your boss or your kids were standing over your shoulder? When was the last time animal crackers told your daughter she was fat, or wasn't wearing enough makeup, or wasn't dressing slutty enough? When was the last time animal crackers tried to take advantage of a person who had financial problems, by trying to convince them that t…

Why the down votes? Do you not see adverts like these every day?

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#125
post #106
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human survival and wealth depend on voluntary production and trade. That is already baked into the evolutionary cake. If human behavior ever became "all about screwing over" other people, initiating force, and taking property without consent, then the human race would die out. Of course, a small portion of humans can and do live that way, but that is an aberration. If it ever becomes the norm, misery, illness, povert…

I sure hope you're not suggesting that the recognition and protection of private property is somehow linked with the survival of the species, because that would demonstrate a pretty shallow view of history. Indeed, the notion of "private property" often comes hand in hand with authoritarian force: http://everything2.com/title/The+Enclosure+Movement

You have linked to a story of people who used authoritarian force to violate private property. The people who took that land from its rightful owners were thieves.

Rightful property is established by production or trade. A rough recursive definition goes: Your body and mind are your property. If you make a thing using your property, that thing is your property. If you obtain a thing by trading your property for it, that thing is your property. (I view "gift" as a special case of trade, where the price is zero.)

I would also define "trade" as a voluntary contractual interaction between two parties. The word "voluntary" precludes force, and the word "contractual" precludes fraud.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#126

Profit is not wrong. Profit is not screwing someone. Any freely contracted trade results in a net benefit for both parties. It has to by definition, or else it wouldn't be entered. When someone says ads are "screwing them over", I have to laugh and wonder what kind of life that person leads that annoying ads are considered an atrocity. If you want to see being "screwed over", look no further than our tax code. Our ta…

> It has to by definition, or else it wouldn't be entered.

This is Econ 101 dogma. I'm surprised you can write this without examining it further. People are not rational actors. That's why advertising works.

What's particularly interesting about your using this argument is that advertising exists precisely to manipulate the non-rational decision making of consumers.

Once we realize that humans in general are wired such that they make certain cognitive mistakes again, and again, we have to modify our understanding of a "freely contracted trade".

A trade where I take advantage of your human nature to encourage you to make a decision that is in my interest is not truly freely-entered.

With respect to your tax rant ... you should know that people respond more to what is annoying or vivid than to longer term considerations.

Ads are a low-grade but constant irritation, whereas I make enough money that taxes are just some numbers on paper.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#127
Ars article was about how when they blocked the ad-blockers people complained.

If you have the views espoused in this article you should have no problem using an ad blocker which tells the web-server that it's blocking ads and leaves it's up to the website whether it chooses to return you content sans-advertising.

If you're using an ad blocker that specifically misleads the website into thinking ads are being viewed when they're not, then that's clearly unethical.

Imagine if you asked someone for a favour and they asked you for a favour in return. And then they did what you wanted but you only pretended to do what they wanted. That's exactly the same situation as this.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#128
While the arguments about ethics and morality are relevant, I prefer to focus on the implicit challenge: Can more publishers find ways to make money from ad-free content?

Adblock is like Napster. People want the content; the vast majority of publishers only have one business model; a lot of consumers doesn't like the price they're being asked for the benefit they're getting, and many of them are willing to take the content without paying.

There are always people who won't pay no matter what - in the music world, filesharing is still around. But a lot of people started paying for music again when Amazon and Apple and eMusic changed the price structure to something they were willing to pay.

There are a few sites like LiveJournal and MetaFilter that have ad-free options for paid users. Maybe this is a small niche and will never be big business. But maybe there are a lot more user who would pay to support ad-free content - if the price is right.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#129

Stop making the world a garish and hideous place to live by flooding it with ads. There are people so soft that they consider the world a "hideous place to live" because of some advertising? There are people who can barely eat each day without getting so offended by a few commercials. It so happens that advertisements are devastating to my well-being. This is crazy talk. Is it even possible to argue against someone w…

Advertisement, like any art form, is made of 90% garbage. The difference with all the other art forms is that there is a whole industry that works towards force-feeding the greatest number of people with that the garbage.

A few times I was so disgusted by a movie that I walked out of a theater. I don't have the choice to walk out of most advertising, I don't have a choice which advertising I see in the first place. Most of the ads are in the worst possible taste and dripping with hypocrisy. I guess you get used to it somehow, after all those years. I bet you could get used to eating shit too.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#130
post #114
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

revenue from impressions is a speculative hogwash remnant of the print medium and needs to go The idea one makes money from ads simply by having it displayed is copying a highly speculative advertising model of print (where the effect can hardly be measured) to the web (where you can measure it be by actual clicks) put simply its vaporware of the worst kind, and a business that hedges its revenue on this model is hed…

I was surprised that Ars is payed by impressions, I thought it is all pay per click these days.

It depends where the ads are running. Ads you see on big content sites are almost always on a CPM model. Fixed price ads (like you see on TechCrunch or TheDeck) are generally based on a CPM rate.

Pay per click ads aren't generally worth enough money to sustain sites that produce content. Aggregators, search engines, social networks, etc, have a much, much lower cost per pageview, and can do pretty well. On Ars, we'd need to average about 50,000 pageviews per normal post to pay the writer for it with something like Google AdSense. And that's assuming that the campaigns AdSense picks are pretty good.

There are whitepaper links and stuff you can get much better CPC rates for, but those generally only work if you're sneaky about them and embed them in content, or make them look like site resources.

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