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Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

troyhunt.com

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Re: Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

#11

Post by pdkl95 »

huuu wrote: post #5

Doesn't this create a risk of committing fraud and identity theft in some countries? I can understand it wouldn't be a crime to create a random email address but creating a fake house address and using this for payments sounds a little tricky.

What you call "fraud" I call "privacy". Anonymous transactions happen all the time with cash, and any new payment method needs an equivalent. In the modern era where it is no longer possible to gain privacy by being unobservable, a new definition of privacy is required. Dan Geer has a very good replacement definition; privacy is "the effective capacity to misrepresent yourself"[1]. If cash isn't possible, misrepresentation is the only option.

[1] http://geer.tinho.net/geer.blackhat.6viii14.txt

Re: Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

#12

Post by huuu »

pdkl95 wrote: post #11
huuu wrote: post #5

Doesn't this create a risk of committing fraud and identity theft in some countries? I can understand it wouldn't be a crime to create a random email address but creating a fake house address and using this for payments sounds a little tricky.

What you call "fraud" I call "privacy". Anonymous transactions happen all the time with cash, and any new payment method needs an equivalent. In the modern era where it is no longer possible to gain privacy by being unobservable, a new definition of privacy is required. Dan Geer has a very good replacement definition; privacy is "the effective capacity to misrepresent yourself"[1]. If cash isn't possible, misrepresen…

What you call privacy might be called fraud in some countries. That's what my question is about.

Re: Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

#14

Post by sleepychu »

WA wrote: post #9
btrask wrote: post #8

This is just a list of more things for them to clamp down on. I'm thinking about going in the opposite direction, and broadcasting all of my personally identifying information (credit card, SSN, etc). Obviously I would have to set aside a large amount of time to deal with issuing fraud reports, and make sure that I wasn't risking anything that I can't afford to lose--but it does seem simpler in some ways. After all,…

The problem: "Nothing to hide" depends on the context. Maybe you don't have anything to hide under the current laws, but what about laws in 20 years from now? Maybe times change and suddenly, you've got a lot to hide.

I'm having trouble finding it but the perfect example of this is a census that collected religious affiliation (for innocent statistics) that some brave citizens went to great lengths to destroy when they came under Nazi occupation in order to try and protect Jewish residents.

Re: Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

#16

Post by chris_wot »

huuu wrote: post #5

Doesn't this create a risk of committing fraud and identity theft in some countries? I can understand it wouldn't be a crime to create a random email address but creating a fake house address and using this for payments sounds a little tricky.

What identity are you stealing though?

Re: Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

#17

Post by q-base »

btrask wrote: post #8

This is just a list of more things for them to clamp down on. I'm thinking about going in the opposite direction, and broadcasting all of my personally identifying information (credit card, SSN, etc). Obviously I would have to set aside a large amount of time to deal with issuing fraud reports, and make sure that I wasn't risking anything that I can't afford to lose--but it does seem simpler in some ways. After all,…

As another pointed out, nothing to hide depends on context and context can be other than legal context.

Your browser history or credit card statements for porn sites may not be illegal, but might hamper your political career or personal life.

You may be the CEO of a non-profit aiming to combat fossil fuels in which case your youth spent tractor pulling or drag racing may prove "annoying" once a adversary succeeds in spinning the history right.

There are lots of examples where nothing to hide has absolutely nothing to do with the law. And the big deal here is that YOU decide for yourself what your conscience can commit to - not public debate.

Re: Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

#18

Post by evgen »

sleepychu wrote: post #14
WA wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem: "Nothing to hide" depends on the context. Maybe you don't have anything to hide under the current laws, but what about laws in 20 years from now? Maybe times change and suddenly, you've got a lot to hide.

I'm having trouble finding it but the perfect example of this is a census that collected religious affiliation (for innocent statistics) that some brave citizens went to great lengths to destroy when they came under Nazi occupation in order to try and protect Jewish residents.

While it makes a nice story, if you think that lacking this information would have seriously slowed down the Holocaust you are sadly mistaken.

Re: Going dark: online privacy and anonymity for normal people

#19

Post by noja »

btrask wrote: post #8

This is just a list of more things for them to clamp down on. I'm thinking about going in the opposite direction, and broadcasting all of my personally identifying information (credit card, SSN, etc). Obviously I would have to set aside a large amount of time to deal with issuing fraud reports, and make sure that I wasn't risking anything that I can't afford to lose--but it does seem simpler in some ways. After all,…

With the phrase "nothing to _hide_" you are starting from a bias: that if you have something that is not public knowledge then it must be wrong or evil and must therefore be hidden.
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