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The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

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Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#121

Post by pavel_lishin »

rhino369 wrote: post #116
pavel_lishin wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree; the equation only changes somewhat. Passengers under a hijacking still don't expect to survive by cooperating, so the cost of cooperation is still effectively infinite high. Guns still run out of bullets, and are somewhat difficult to wield in a close-quarters situation - it's not a magic first-person shooter. The cost becomes higher than fighting someone with a box cutter, but still lower than evaporatin…

I think you could hijack a plane if you just demand the pilot takes you somewhere rather than trying to get cockpit access. Making a move for the cockpit will cause everyone to rush you. But if you just take prisoners and demand that the pilot flies to Venezuela, I'm fairly sure it would work.

Maybe. But I don't think anyone argued for eliminating security altogether; pre-9/11 security prevented guns from being on airplanes as well as the TSA for $7b less per year. Bringing security back to post-1970's/pre-9-11 levels doesn't seem like it would cost us anything except a really shitty Basic Income program.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#122

Post by sosborn »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #102
cloudjacker wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I arrive at the airport in a Lyft. I walk up to the security checkpoint checkpoint, where I show the agent my phone. They see my boarding pass with the green checkmark and send me to the empty TSA Pre line. I walk through the metal detector with no adjustments to my attire. I am at the gate in 5 minutes. I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train rid…

Agree. My $100 Global Entry (includes TSA Pre) fee is my hedge against the American public's apathy towards the TSA.

> My $100 Global Entry (includes TSA Pre) fee is my hedge against the American public's apathy towards the TSA.

I don't blame you for paying that fee, but doesn't that just feed the monster?

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#123

Post by scld »

capote wrote: post #35
ndirish1842 wrote: post #7

I wonder how autonomous driving will affect shorter flight commutes. I'll probably never take a car from Philadelphia to LA, but I might prefer to travel by car from Philadelphia to Chicago if I know that I can sleep throughout the car ride (as well as leave whenever is most convenient). When you take into account driving to the airport, checking bags, security, flight delays, baggage claim, and rental cars/driving t…

I wonder why so many people immediately jump to thinking about a car as an alternative to short distance air travel. Would people in the US never even consider a fast train system as a good option between Philadelphia and Chicago? (If it were built, of course. But self-driving cars need to be built too. But I guess they're easier; I'm just dreaming)

Those East-West train routes don't really have any pent up demand at the moment. http://www.america2050.org/pdf/Where-HSR-Works-Best.pdf. You can see those "islands" between which you would either need to have complete coverage between them like a spider web, or you'd need to travel from philly to DC or NY then over to Chicago. Now, take yourself a self-driving bus over to a large rail hub.....

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#124

Post by [deleted] »

rhino369 wrote: post #120
lisper wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you could just walk onto a plane with a gun, people would do it again. No, they wouldn't. In the 70's the unwritten rule was: you hijack the plane, land it, make your demands, get your TV time, and then you surrender (or get away) but no one gets hurt. It is only because of that unwritten rule that you could get away with it because everyone assumed that the best route to survival was to cooperate with the hijac…

There have been a couple hijackings in recent years. I think trying to get cockpit access is probably impossible, but you could still take hostages and demand the pilots fly somewhere. >Any terrorist who wanted to make the headlines would set off a bomb in the TSA line at O'Hare. It would be trivial. Trivial, but less carnage than a full plane going down. Airplane bombings multiple the deaths by 10X.

[deleted]

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#125

Post by alexggordon »

yoo1I wrote: post #107
cloudjacker wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I arrive at the airport in a Lyft. I walk up to the security checkpoint checkpoint, where I show the agent my phone. They see my boarding pass with the green checkmark and send me to the empty TSA Pre line. I walk through the metal detector with no adjustments to my attire. I am at the gate in 5 minutes. I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train rid…

What do you need to do to be able to get this convenience ?

Because it abstracts security to something that can be done in the weeks before your flight, instead of vetting a person in the hour and a half beforehand.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#126

Post by tzs »

cloudjacker wrote: post #79
two2two wrote: post #29

TSA is the number one reason why I don't fly and drive instead. From my POV most of the world's industries have progressed positively, but not air travel. I took a train a couple of years ago and it was a beautiful example of old merging with new. Walking through an antique of a train station, iPhone in hand, with my digital ticket ready to board; so easy and pleasant. At that point I realized that air travel is by f…

I arrive at the airport in a Lyft. I walk up to the security checkpoint checkpoint, where I show the agent my phone. They see my boarding pass with the green checkmark and send me to the empty TSA Pre line. I walk through the metal detector with no adjustments to my attire. I am at the gate in 5 minutes. I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train rid…

> I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train ride, compared to airport, checkpoints and boarding time, possibly waiting on the runway, and air time.

Trains have their delays, too, such as long waits on passing sidings to clear the way for freight trains. Much of Amtrak's routes (72% by mileage) are on freight company owned rails that Amtrak pays for access to.

The freight companies gives their own trains priority over Amtrak. They are supposed to give Amtrak priority, but there is little effort spend on enforcement.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#127

Post by ssmoot »

pc86 wrote: post #93
tptacek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private jet travel is probably _not_ within reach for the average SV developer.

I know the poster specifically mentioned a jet but GA in general is absolutely within reach. With a license it costs maybe $150/hr to fly a Cessna 172 (and you're usually only billed for time the engine's actually running).

That's not really a good comparison. You might as well say driving is within reach for most people.

You can drive at 70MPH. Windspeed doesn't impact you. The Cesna will cruise at ~140MPH. Windspeed might delay your arrival to the point that it's much faster to drive for shorter trips though. The jet will do 530MPH.

Maybe the Cesna makes sense if there's no reasonably direct route by freeway. Or you're island hopping. It seems like a fairly small window where chartering a Cesna makes sense though (IMO). You can't transport a family of 4 with luggage. It'll be more expensive than the (commercial, not private) Jet, and take about 4 times longer. For every 1-1/2 hours of Jet travel, you'll have to refuel the Cesna as well. And if you though economy class on a commercial Jet was uncomfortable you're in for a rude awakening as well. ;-)

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#128

Post by TheOneTrueKyle »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #102
cloudjacker wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I arrive at the airport in a Lyft. I walk up to the security checkpoint checkpoint, where I show the agent my phone. They see my boarding pass with the green checkmark and send me to the empty TSA Pre line. I walk through the metal detector with no adjustments to my attire. I am at the gate in 5 minutes. I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train rid…

Agree. My $100 Global Entry (includes TSA Pre) fee is my hedge against the American public's apathy towards the TSA.

But aren't you just buying your rights back?

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#129

Post by dragontamer »

sosborn wrote: post #122
toomuchtodo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. My $100 Global Entry (includes TSA Pre) fee is my hedge against the American public's apathy towards the TSA.

> My $100 Global Entry (includes TSA Pre) fee is my hedge against the American public's apathy towards the TSA. I don't blame you for paying that fee, but doesn't that just feed the monster?

Starving the monster doesn't work.

Besides, "anti-TSA" is painting with too broad a brush. Air Marshals are part of the TSA, as are a myriad of other useful agencies.

Its really just the pre-screen and invasive checks that need to stop. I think we all can agree that a dedicated force of Air Marshals is a good idea, right? As is the "intelligence" unit who is looking for active threats vs Airports.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#130

Post by mikeash »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #121
rhino369 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could hijack a plane if you just demand the pilot takes you somewhere rather than trying to get cockpit access. Making a move for the cockpit will cause everyone to rush you. But if you just take prisoners and demand that the pilot flies to Venezuela, I'm fairly sure it would work.

Maybe. But I don't think anyone argued for eliminating security altogether; pre-9/11 security prevented guns from being on airplanes as well as the TSA for $7b less per year. Bringing security back to post-1970's/pre-9-11 levels doesn't seem like it would cost us anything except a really shitty Basic Income program.

My comment is in reply to a comment that says exactly that you don't need any security at all. It quotes "You need some security" and replies with "No, it was not clear then, and it is not clear now."

If you think we need some security but only at pre-9/11 levels, then you and I are on the same page there.

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