Live data from Hacker News

Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

experimental-geography.blogspot.com

151–155 of 155 posts

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#151
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying: there's a shortage of housing, and there's not a shortage of economy cars. But that's not a rebuttal to the argument I'm making. The question is whether or not new luxury housing makes rents cheaper for poor folks, today. Even here, in the epicenter of a housing crisis, there's not a lot of evidence that it does. But there's evidence that preferentially building low-income housi…

Is there a coherent argument you can make that doesn't depend on upper-income people shunning lower-income neighborhoods in San Francisco? Because the evidence strongly suggests that they don't: that when luxury housing is unavailable, upper-income people in the Bay Area move on to claim lower-income housing. (I lived in Bayview for a bit, and I was hardly the only tech person I knew who lived there.)

"Is there a coherent argument you can make that doesn't depend on upper-income people shunning lower-income neighborhoods in San Francisco? Because the evidence strongly suggests that they don't"

I'm not claiming that they do. I'm arguing the opposite: if you build only luxury, it doesn't help poor people much, because most people will try to get the cheapest, nicest housing they can find. Building luxury units helps only to the extent that building anything here helps -- and if we believe the OP, it doesn't help very much at all.

Basically, this: you lived in Bayview, so you know who lives there. Knocking down every existing low-density home in Bayview and replacing it with market-rate housing would displace a huge number of poor folks. It probably also helps lower aggregate rents for everyone in SF by $40 a month or whatever, but that's thin gruel to the people who were there before.

This is the fundamental dilemma facing all construction in San Francisco.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#152
post #138
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens all the time. http://cityobservatory.org/what-filtering-can-and-cant-do/

Thanks, that was a very interesting read!

Thanks for reading. If you liked that, you might also like

http://www.masongaffney.org/publications/G2009-Hidden_Taxabl...

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#153
post #150
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An hour north of SF, my single family home cost me $216 sq. ft. Prices in SF are significantly higher. Trulia makes it look to be ~ $700-$1000 sq. ft.

I don't mean to belittle your choice as I assume you're happy with it. But please understand that, for a lot of people, living an hour north of SF is too far for their taste. Even to the point of being worth the extra money.

I think you lost track of the thread at some point. I supplied housing prices at my location to counter the parent's assertion that skyscrapers were too costly as supported by "Building skyscrapers costs upwards of $300 per square foot, whereas single-family homes cost a fifth or a sixth of that." I was not trying to suggest that people move an hour away for cheaper housing, but that even an hour away, a skyscraper at those prices isn't necessarily a bad deal, making it much more feasible in SF.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#154
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a coherent argument you can make that doesn't depend on upper-income people shunning lower-income neighborhoods in San Francisco? Because the evidence strongly suggests that they don't: that when luxury housing is unavailable, upper-income people in the Bay Area move on to claim lower-income housing. (I lived in Bayview for a bit, and I was hardly the only tech person I knew who lived there.)

"Is there a coherent argument you can make that doesn't depend on upper-income people shunning lower-income neighborhoods in San Francisco? Because the evidence strongly suggests that they don't" I'm not claiming that they do. I'm arguing the opposite: if you build only luxury, it doesn't help poor people much, because most people will try to get the cheapest, nicest housing they can find. Building luxury units helps…

Since I didn't advocate bulldozing Bayview for luxury condos, I'm not sure where to go from here. It seems like you've conceded my central point.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#155
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is there a coherent argument you can make that doesn't depend on upper-income people shunning lower-income neighborhoods in San Francisco? Because the evidence strongly suggests that they don't" I'm not claiming that they do. I'm arguing the opposite: if you build only luxury, it doesn't help poor people much, because most people will try to get the cheapest, nicest housing they can find. Building luxury units helps…

Since I didn't advocate bulldozing Bayview for luxury condos, I'm not sure where to go from here. It seems like you've conceded my central point.

Only in the sense that I disagree completely and shown that you're wrong. ;-)

There's no guarantee that building luxury housing lowers prices, which is what you were implying. You have to take it on a case-by-case basis.

Post reply on HN