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First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

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Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#51

Post by codezero »

stevecalifornia wrote: post #45
codezero wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am saying that the author is using Sentinelese interchangeably with Jarawa/Andaman incorrectly. The only reference I can find for such contact is a blog post and a 1993 news article that appears anecdotal. I'd like to see the journal article written about this contact by the Anthropological Survey of India which funded the contact with the Andaman Islanders, but I can't find a source, leading me to believe it didn'…

You didn't read the article. She landed on North Sentinel island and interacted with the Sentinelese. Then, later in the article it focuses on Jarawa.

I did read it. I just don't trust the veracity of the claims.

The best I can find is this book: https://books.google.com/books?id=-4PDCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=...

This text claims to have made friendly contact in 1986, and says 1994 had contact on the eastern coast.

These dates don't line up with the story, and I can't find any official source information about the contact, so the inconsistency is a red flag.

Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#52

Post by codezero »

codezero wrote: post #44
x1798DE wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, Sentinelese is apparently (based on other encounters) ,not mutually intelligible with Onge, which does seem to be an inconsistency in the idea that she heard them asking for coconuts in Onge.

Wikipedia references the same anecdotal source material and not anything from an authentic source.

I think I misplaced this comment, sorry!

Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#53

Post by logfromblammo »

ChrisDutrow wrote: post #29

> The tribes might be primitive in their technological achievements but socially they are far ahead of us”. Based on my understanding of "reality", I would assume this would tend to be the case. From what I understand, rapid technological advancement tends to wreak havoc on social structures. These people are wise to attack outsiders, especially given their early contact with westerners in 1880. There are all kinds o…

I disagree. You can't meaningfully separate technological progress from societal sophistication. Developments in one drive the other forward.

For instance, the concept of private property promotes the invention of productivity-enhancing capital, at the expense of tribal cooperation. Computerized automation drives the proliferation of unnecessary jobs.

Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#54

Post by codezero »

astine wrote: post #47
codezero wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and I am arguing that these are incorrectly labeled because there's no authentic source showing such contact, so something has been lost in translation wherein Andaman Islanders are being called Sentinelese.

Do you have any source for those particular photos and videos being from the other Andaman islands? I've seen the video before and it was labelled then as being of the Sentinelese. I feel that if it were of a different tribe, then you'd be able to find the original context and the actual tribe it was.

There are lots of photos of the other tribes, honestly, the garb they wear is pretty similar, so I don't think that would refute anything. All I want is some more official documentation of this interaction.

If the Indian government just sent people over to throw coconuts onto an island and didn't have any official documentation of the trip, or research that the trip resulted in, a story about it more than 20 years later doesn't hold a lot of weight for me.

As you can see, this is just me being a bit pedantic, so if others want to take this as a source of truth, they are welcome to do so, I'd just like to know why they think this is authoritative.

Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#55

Post by codezero »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #49
redsummer wrote: post #4

Any significant contact would wipe the Sentinelese out. Even a common cold infection would be the end of them. The anthropologists know this, but seem willing to risk this for their own ego. If we wanted to learn anything about the Sentinelese, then perhaps we could use well-camouflaged camera traps, and other electronic eavesdropping devices. The moral considerations are difficult - it's a privacy breach, but the in…

The inhabitants are extremely unique. There may be no other society like theirs on the face of the planet. If an unintrusive privacy breach of that small group was likely to allow us to learn something that would improve the lives of 7 billion others, it ought to be made. Just do the math. I don't think there's likely to be that much we can learn which would actually be useful, but that ought to be the test.

Out of curiosity, what could we learn that would change people's lives?

My understanding is that the only thing we'd learn is more about how early tribal systems might have been, which is of academic interest to Anthropologists, not of general value to every day people.

I am known to misunderstand though, which is why I'm asking if there is something we think we can learn from studying them that would apply to all people.

Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#57

Post by [deleted] »

codezero wrote: post #15
ianhawes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is formatted oddly, but the middle section starting at "On January 4, 1991, MV Tarmugli," talks about the actual encounter with the Sentinelese.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11714639 I don't think this is contact with the Sentinelese, but with the Jarawa, another tribe on the same chain of islands.

[deleted]

Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#59

Post by khedoros »

codezero wrote: post #51
stevecalifornia wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't read the article. She landed on North Sentinel island and interacted with the Sentinelese. Then, later in the article it focuses on Jarawa.

I did read it. I just don't trust the veracity of the claims. The best I can find is this book: https://books.google.com/books?id=-4PDCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=... This text claims to have made friendly contact in 1986, and says 1994 had contact on the eastern coast. These dates don't line up with the story, and I can't find any official source information about the contact, so the inconsistency is a red flag.

She apparently wrote a book 15 years ago: http://www.amazon.in/Tribes-Car-Nicobar-Madhumala-Chattopadh...

I don't know how one would go about researching Indian anthropological expeditions to find the officially-documented connection to reality, but presumably that's where you'd start, if you wanted to verify the story.

Re: First Friendly Contact with the Sentinelese

#60

Post by ChrisDutrow »

Jun8 wrote: post #48
ChrisDutrow wrote: post #29

> The tribes might be primitive in their technological achievements but socially they are far ahead of us”. Based on my understanding of "reality", I would assume this would tend to be the case. From what I understand, rapid technological advancement tends to wreak havoc on social structures. These people are wise to attack outsiders, especially given their early contact with westerners in 1880. There are all kinds o…

Does she use "us" to refer to Indian society, or humanity in general (minus other primitive tribes, presumably)? What parameters do you base "advancement" in this case, e.g. is the Sentilenese socially "far ahead of" US society in general? How about, say, Ethiopian or Navajo societies? Once we start thinking about the diversity of human experience I think we can see such statements as examples of the Noble Savage sen…

> I think we can see such statements as examples of the Noble Savage sentiment

I think considering all primitive societies to be "noble" is probably not accurate. Probably most of them had serious issues.

My impression (which is just from reading various material over the years) of these small tribe-size communities is that some of them evolve very advanced social structures - where there is low violence and high compassion. The emotional side of me "likes" this. But also my intellect suggests that more harmonious/supportive communities are probably stronger and more productive.

Other communities diverge into states that I consider to be "sick" perversions of what communities "should" be like. Things like honor killings and it being ok to sell your nieces and nephews into the slave trade are things I would personally consider sick and I hope they are sub optimal from a survival perspective.

If I had to guess, I'd say a big reason she considered them socially advanced was the matriarchal component. I speculate that its hard to develop a matriarchal society because men tend to be more aggressive and physically stronger. However, my impression is that matriarchal societies tend to be less violent and more harmonious. It could be argued that less violence and more harmony are components of a more optimal social structure.

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