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How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

blog.makewonder.com

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Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#111

Post by VPrime »

Our app hyperPad (https://www.hyperpad.com) is being widely used to teach kids programming. It was never intended for that, but it's really interesting to see schools around the world using it to teach kids to code.

We actually built it as an easy way to make games, but hey, if people are using it to learn, we won't complain ;).

Since our app is primarily a tool to make games and other interactive apps, we take a different approach to our behaviour system. The hyperPad behaviour system is our take on a node based event driven programming language that lets users focus on the design and the fun parts. But still give them the power they need :).

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#112

Post by spinsser »

thunderbong wrote: post #43
akkartik wrote: post #34

It is a perpetual puzzle to me why learning programming isn't considered to involve learning about functions. In my experience the hardest thing about programming is teaching people the facility of "uncoiling" in their heads the coiled representation of a loop or repeated calls of a function. That in turn requires as a prerequisite the ability to consider a function being called with multiple different inputs, and ho…

Scratch has the concept of functions. They are also called blocks. Custom blocks which kids can create. The blocks can take parameters and are conceptually identical to functions. I don't know about the other languages mentioned though. I prepare curriculum for Grades 4 and 5 on Programming using Scratch and Flowcharts and teach kids to create blocks whenever they see that functionalities are getting repeated. Kids t…

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I would really appreciate if you could share the curriculum you have been working on, or if you could share you experience.

I am currently trying to do the same, so I would appreciate any form of help I can get.

Regards.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#113

Post by piokuc »

imakesnowflakes wrote: post #92
kevhito wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you programmed in scratch for any significant amount of time? I have, so have my kids, and as a CS prof (at a small non-engineering college) I encourage my students to do so too. Before age 10, almost entirely on their own, my kids discovered ideas like abstraction (writing custom blocks), recursion, data representation (e.g. encoding/decoding pairs, structs and lists into arbitrary-precision integers), asynchro…

>they seem to grasp these at a much deeper level than I did at that age.. What real difference will it make in the future? I think none. Some one who understanding recursion when they were 10 will not end up much better programmer than someone who was exposed to it at 20, and have sufficient experience in using the concept. Same with other CS concepts. The idea of making kids learn this sounds great, because it looks…

Why do you think so? It's a common knowledge early start gives one an advantage in many disciplines: music, ballet, chess. Why are you so sure programming is so different?

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#114

Post by rastapasta42 »

Shameless plug: I'm working on a small graphics environment to teach my 7-year-old brother programming. It doesn't have any advanced graphical GUI, instead it has a Scheme/Lisp REPL connected to OpenGL window and it lets you draw various shapes (such as triangle and squares) as well as load shapes from .obj files exported by blender. Once you load a shape, you can assign it a color or texture from PNG file, then move, scale and rotate the shape, and get basic keyboard and mouse inputs

https://github.com/kostyakow/skomakare

Note that error handling in my language isn't great, and I don't have proper tail-call optimizations, but I'm working on v2 which will add more real-world features to the language.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#115

Post by ghrifter »

twic wrote: post #20
methehack wrote: post #5

I've always been suspicious of the looks-like-an-animal-with-a-name-and-a-smiley-face-I'm-a-grown-up-and-this-is-what-kids-like approach. I remember one of the coolest things about the apple II was that you could 'poke' the right memory address and get the speaker to click. That was magic when I was 12 and it didn't need a friendly name and a stupid grin. Until they're old enough for K&R (12?, 13?, 14?), maybe they s…

> Until they're old enough for K&R (12?, 13?, 14?) "If their age is on the clock, they're too young for malloc"?

"Old enough to see, better start teaching them some C"

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#116

Post by imakesnowflakes »

piokuc wrote: post #113
imakesnowflakes wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they seem to grasp these at a much deeper level than I did at that age.. What real difference will it make in the future? I think none. Some one who understanding recursion when they were 10 will not end up much better programmer than someone who was exposed to it at 20, and have sufficient experience in using the concept. Same with other CS concepts. The idea of making kids learn this sounds great, because it looks…

Why do you think so? It's a common knowledge early start gives one an advantage in many disciplines: music, ballet, chess. Why are you so sure programming is so different?

I think those things are different. How many people in the world can create music like Beethoven or Mozart? How many people would have been able to beat Deep Blue in chess at that time? I can imagine there would be music that could only be rendered on a piano or violin, by only a hand full of people in the whole world.

In a similar manner, do you know a program that could only have been written by an 'expert' programmer, or only a hand full of expert programmers in the whole world? I don't think so.

The essence of what I am saying is that, programming is not a hard enough thing to waste those precious early years on.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#117

Post by piokuc »

imakesnowflakes wrote: post #116
piokuc wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think so? It's a common knowledge early start gives one an advantage in many disciplines: music, ballet, chess. Why are you so sure programming is so different?

I think those things are different. How many people in the world can create music like Beethoven or Mozart? How many people would have been able to beat Deep Blue in chess at that time? I can imagine there would be music that could only be rendered on a piano or violin, by only a hand full of people in the whole world. In a similar manner, do you know a program that could only have been written by an 'expert' program…

Yes, I can think of programs that can only be designed and implemented by top 1% of programmers.

Regarding "programming is not a [...] thing to waste those precious early years on.", well, this is not something I'd like to argue about, just want to say that learning programming by a kid doesn't have to be (and, of course, shouldn't be) a 8h or more daily activity, like for a professional adult programmer. I think an hour per week of learning programming can be a valuable exercise in logical thinking, creativity and problem solving. It can easily be a lot of fun, too.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#118

Post by imakesnowflakes »

piokuc wrote: post #117
imakesnowflakes wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think those things are different. How many people in the world can create music like Beethoven or Mozart? How many people would have been able to beat Deep Blue in chess at that time? I can imagine there would be music that could only be rendered on a piano or violin, by only a hand full of people in the whole world. In a similar manner, do you know a program that could only have been written by an 'expert' program…

Yes, I can think of programs that can only be designed and implemented by top 1% of programmers. Regarding "programming is not a [...] thing to waste those precious early years on.", well, this is not something I'd like to argue about, just want to say that learning programming by a kid doesn't have to be (and, of course, shouldn't be) a 8h or more daily activity, like for a professional adult programmer. I think an…

> I can think of programs that can only be designed and implemented by top 1% of programmers...

Interesting. Can you share some of those...?

EDIT: Oh, I just noticed that you said top 1% of all programmers. I was not talking about top 1%. I was talking about a handfull of them. Top 1% would be quite more than a hand full. But please share those programs anyway...

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#119

Post by piokuc »

imakesnowflakes wrote: post #118
piokuc wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I can think of programs that can only be designed and implemented by top 1% of programmers. Regarding "programming is not a [...] thing to waste those precious early years on.", well, this is not something I'd like to argue about, just want to say that learning programming by a kid doesn't have to be (and, of course, shouldn't be) a 8h or more daily activity, like for a professional adult programmer. I think an…

> I can think of programs that can only be designed and implemented by top 1% of programmers... Interesting. Can you share some of those...? EDIT: Oh, I just noticed that you said top 1% of all programmers. I was not talking about top 1%. I was talking about a handfull of them. Top 1% would be quite more than a hand full. But please share those programs anyway...

There is plenty of things like that, but it's really off topic.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#120

Post by ravenstine »

Anyone else remember Widget Workshop? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widget_Workshop

I loved this game as a kid and, while it's not really a programming language of sorts, it's great for getting you to think in a programmer's mindset. Logo bored the crap out of me, but I could make neat things with it. I feel like it was completely forgotten but something like it could have a real educational use today.

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