Let's not use euphemisms like "kiddie porn" and realize the danger that child pornography feeds the child slavery industry. The core issue is that the suspect is potentially hiding his network, clients or victims' identities. Until he surrenders his hard drives, the truth may never come out.
Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
101–110 of 224 posts
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
This would work for your average Joe, but not for Congressmen. Unless somebody more powerful than them want them gone, they will have the resources to just deflect the problem. Honestly, how many politicians have you seen going to jail ? Does it match the global % of population in jail ?
it's almost as though congressmen undergo some kind of selection process which attempts to find responsible, non-criminal members of society
That would be a good hypothesis if politicians wouldn't be constantly being caught lying, cheating and breaking promises, starting wars or saving bankrupt industries with people's money. But since they do that, with little consequences, the theory that they are actually good at getting what they want without paying the cost we would pay for something far smaller seems more likely.
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But he was saying that a being attracted to children is in itself not doing anything wrong. > The rhino equivilent would be if you wanted to use rhino horn but because you know it would be wrong to, you never do use it. I would argue that both of these things are wrong, though not as wrong as actually acting on the desires. I don't think there should be any legal consequences for the thoughts in your head, but the…
It's really important to separate what someone thinks from what someone does. Having violent thoughts about people is very common, acting on them far less so. Someone who reads sick fiction and or looks at man made images is hardly harming anyone. I mean Vorarephilia is also a thing, and they can get off watching monster movies. But, there are very few actual cannibals out there. At best you could make a comment base…
> It's really important to separate what someone thinks from what someone does.
I agree. That's why I said that people shouldn't be subjected to legal consequences for their thoughts. They should definitely not be morally absolved.
> Having violent thoughts about people is very common, acting on them far less so.
I would argue that a person that looks at paedophilic content is arguably being violent themselves. If you went to a ancient Roman gladiator arena and eagerly watched the bloodsport, or to a current-day dogfighting event as a spectator, then you are participating in the violence, even if you aren't actually conducting any of it. What separates bloodsport from horror movies is that in movies, nobody is actually getting hurt.
There is definitely a relative aspect to right and wrong, and we all have ways in which we are wrong. It's important to recognize what is wrong and what is right, and to work to become more right over time.
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, not so hard. Proxy their internet for a browsing session, and you put thumbnails of images in their cache. If they have any encrypted drive, or any encrypted blobs (could push those into their cache as well), and they're not going to have a great day. Cached images has been enough to put away more than a few folks - there was also recently a story about using exactly that tactic against a suspected spy.
This is really moving the goalpost from the grandparent's comment of "encrypt a zip drive with drivel, toss it in his car and call the cops". Yes of course you can get an active MiTM session going you can do a lot of shady stuff.
It can easily be used in tandem with the encrypted drive, to create probable cause to suspect the drive.
And MiTM is far too simple to do. One of my friends was able to rickroll many a person with about $100 of gear. It was always troubling to watch my computer connect to my home network while at a conference, with no real notification to me.
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
it's almost as though congressmen undergo some kind of selection process which attempts to find responsible, non-criminal members of society
That would be a good hypothesis if politicians wouldn't be constantly being caught lying, cheating and breaking promises, starting wars or saving bankrupt industries with people's money. But since they do that, with little consequences, the theory that they are actually good at getting what they want without paying the cost we would pay for something far smaller seems more likely.
Think you missed the sarcasm.
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
The person you are replying to wasn't saying that paedophiles who look at child porn aren't doing anything wrong. If he was, your rhino analogy would be a good one, and is the reason nearly everyone agrees that child porn should be illegal even if you are only viewing it. But he was saying that a being attracted to children is in itself not doing anything wrong. Plenty of paedophiles don't look at child porn, do anyt…
> But he was saying that a being attracted to children is in itself not doing anything wrong. > The rhino equivilent would be if you wanted to use rhino horn but because you know it would be wrong to, you never do use it. I would argue that both of these things are wrong, though not as wrong as actually acting on the desires. I don't think there should be any legal consequences for the thoughts in your head, but the…
>even if you never act on them, then you are contributing to the denigration and subjugation of people of color.
How so? I sometimes think racist (and sexist, and...) thoughts, but I know they are wrong, so I don't act on them. How am I contributing to the oppression of people of the ethnicity I have racist thoughts against?
(Incidentally I think "people of color" is a pretty racist term, since it lumps all non-white ethnicities together.)
>Paedophilia may be sexuality, and yes, it was wrong to demonize homosexuality, but unless you're arguing that one day we'll look at paedophilia the same way, then you can't put them in the same boat morally.
Well I do argue that. Just as homosexual rape is a crime (although often treated as a joke, c.f. prison rape), child rape is a crime. No matter the sexual orientation of the perpetrator.
>but a better one is to stop being a paedophile
Since when can sexual orientation be changed? According to Wikipedia:
There is no evidence that pedophilia can be cured. Instead, most therapies focus on helping the pedophile refrain from acting on their desires
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#107I agree with the overall idea that this is an interesting/problematic case, but I think the discussion would be better served if we stopped assuming that the authorities here are morons. No, forgetting your password is not a lifetime sentence. No, not knowing the password for an item you've never seen is not a lifetime sentence either. Refusing to obey a judge's order, however, will get you in trouble. Again, these p…
The reasons are stated in the article (the suspect never mistyped his password, and always remembered it), and addressed by the commentators you criticize (under pressure and after seven months without typing it, it is not impossible that you forget a possibly complicated password). Even if you think that chances are high that the guy both is guilty of some crime and remembers the password, that still leaves the "wha…
> The suspect never mistyped his password, and always remembered it
They even went so far as to say he always got it right on the first try.
I found that very interesting... How would they possibly know that? If they had a key logger obviously they would already know the password.
Does FileVault store some indication of failed login count? That isn't reset after a valid login?
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't be so quick to claim they're doing nothing wrong. Every year, rhinos in Africa are threatened by poachers in Africa who want their horns for the black market in China. Every person who buys rhino horn in Africa, every person who is in a position to fight the unnecessary consumption of endangered animals and doesn't, is complicit in the destruction of their species. You don't get a pass because you aren't t…
The person you are replying to wasn't saying that paedophiles who look at child porn aren't doing anything wrong. If he was, your rhino analogy would be a good one, and is the reason nearly everyone agrees that child porn should be illegal even if you are only viewing it. But he was saying that a being attracted to children is in itself not doing anything wrong. Plenty of paedophiles don't look at child porn, do anyt…
> Plenty of paedophiles
Citation needed for that "plenty".
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's really important to separate what someone thinks from what someone does. Having violent thoughts about people is very common, acting on them far less so. Someone who reads sick fiction and or looks at man made images is hardly harming anyone. I mean Vorarephilia is also a thing, and they can get off watching monster movies. But, there are very few actual cannibals out there. At best you could make a comment base…
> It's really important to separate what someone thinks from what someone does. I agree. That's why I said that people shouldn't be subjected to legal consequences for their thoughts. They should definitely not be morally absolved. > Having violent thoughts about people is very common, acting on them far less so. I would argue that a person that looks at paedophilic content is arguably being violent themselves. If yo…
If someone watches 'gladiator' the movie then real people are not actually being harmed. IMO, it's harder to suggest that watching fake content is also wrong.
Now, extend that to fringe Anime and there is now sick content that's was not harmful to create. I don't see how your suggesting there is an actual difference between movie types assuming all actors are adults and blood was faked etc.
Re: Indefinite prison for suspect who won’t decrypt hard drives, US government says
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's also totally insignificant. He could have broadcast it all over Times Square. That in no way waives his right against self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment. Also, every prosecutor in history has thought their entire case in chief was a "foregone conclusion." That's totally irrelevant.
It's baffling to me that people are treating "he will be found guilty" as evidence that he's already guilty and can be punished freely. We've got a code of laws specifically designed to avoid Inquisition-style "accusation of guilt is presumption of guilt" thinking.
In the past in Europe, there existed the concept of "partially guilty." Someone got shot and you were seen in the vicinity of the crime scene with a gun? You're 25% guilty. Then you're tortured (since you're 25% guilty, it's not torture of an innocent, but punishment), and under torture you "confess", making you fully guilty.
Source: Foucault's Discipline and Punish