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Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

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Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#261

Post by Matt3o12_ »

zzz157 wrote: post #256
Matt3o12_ wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do cops do that in America anyways? Isn't it much more secure to always use a breathalyzer. It only takes a few minutes and you can drive on. I'm also quite sure that you could train for soberty tests (if they are as "unusual" as saying the alphabet backwards) when you're drunk so the cops think you're under the legal limit.

Because is you fail a "field sobriety test", it doesn't matter if you fail a breathalyzer, you get arrested for DUI/DWI anyway. So they do the field sobriety test first, then the breathalyzer after, so they have two chances of having a reason to arrest you.

But would their sobriety test hold up in court or what happens when you fail their field test (but pass the other test). If it doesn't hold up in court (because the scientific tests confirmed sobriety), why would they even bother doing both tests? As far as I know, breathalyzer are far more accurate (less false negatives and positives). This makes me wonder why they would even consider doing the other test. They could catch actual drunk drivers with the time saved and have less work to do (because they don't need to file out paper work for sober drivers).

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#262

Post by zzz157 »

mjevans wrote: post #224
jeffbarr wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used smoke weed back in the day and I kind of enjoyed it. Based on my observations at one Washington state dispensary, at least half of the customers are in their 60's or 70's. I asked the woman behind the counter about it and she told me that many of them are seeking relief from chronic pain and/or cancer treatments.

I wonder how much of the fight against such products being legal is from 'big pharma' trying to stop exactly this?

A lot. We've had the "big 5" industries fighting against us for decades:

* Pharma (because of the amazing and un-patentable medical applications of it)

* Private Criminal Justice and Police Unions (Marijuana is one of the easiest things to make an arrest on--private prisons profit, probation companies profit, inmate phone services, phone providers, ankle bracelet companies, police equipment companies, etc. all profit. For Police Unions, marijuana-related crimes accounting for a sizable percentage of police stops and arrests, legal weed means less jobs and potentially lower pay. Additionally, Marijuana is easy to identify from a distance due to smell, and gives an officer probable cause to make a stop and search for other illegal activity)

* Paper/Textiles (Hemp!)

* Alcohol (Legal weed potentially means a loss of sales for the only major legal intoxicant.)

* Tobacco (Legal weed means something for people to smoke that isn't a cigarette.)

Some of these industries are shifting. Big Tobacco, for example, seems to be trying to join the party, and has made some moves that indicate a desire to enter the industry. I think Paper and Textiles either will come around or already are, as I think Hemp could be easily incorporated into the existing industry.

But yeah, I believe that Big Pharma is as big of a part of this as police unions and Big Criminal Justice.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#263

Post by zzz157 »

daveguy wrote: post #192
yolesaber wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and they are incredibly inaccurate and rely entirely on subjective judgement from the cop's perspective. Full disclosure: I have been pulled over and arrested for "driving while ability impaired" (essentially the non-alcohol DUI) When I was going to school in upstate NY, I was pulled over as I drove my friend home. The cop thought we smelled like weed (fair enough, my friend had some on him, I was sober and not h…

> I'm not really sure what the solution is. Stop smoking weed? That doesn't sound at all worth the trouble.

Why? It helps me. I use it medicinally. Let's fix the laws.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#264

Post by zzz157 »

ams6110 wrote: post #246
geierdmtr wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i feel you. I had an accident and called the police. got arrested, jailed and beaten by guards. first they claimed i was drunk (i dont drink). i could not not stand on one leg for 30 seconds. after brethalizer showed 0 they claimed i was on drugs. got jailed for 2 nights. blood test came back negative for everything 40 days later. they retested it and found wellbutrin and xanax in my blood, my prescription meds. xana…

Did you get a lawyer? Sounds like something that a competent defense attorney could get squashed in about 10 seconds.

Yeah but who just has $3,000+ dollars sitting around for a competent defense attorney? I make six figures and would have a very hard time doing that. Maybe some take payment plans, but my credit is shot... And don't even pretend that public defenders are worth a shit.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#265

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

oxide wrote: post #196
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to disagree here too. I've never been much of an alcohol drinker. I've probably had six standard drinks in the past year. If I drank a six pack of beer right now I'd probably pass out, while some of the people I work with would still be able to drive quite well. Something roughly equivalent applies to marijuana.

if you smoked a joint (or 6 joints, whatever) with no tolerance you'd probably just want to eat a twinky and have a nap instead of driving. even if you didn't, your motor control wouldn't be nearly as impaired, nor would your mental faculty. your judgement also wouldn't be as impaired as having a 6 pack of beer with no tolerance, making it even less likely you get behind the wheel while too intoxicated. I'd call that…

Fair points, and I agree with the impaired judgement thing too, and you're right it is a false equivalence.

I'll be honest...

What I meant to say was, talking from experience: when I smoke six bongs of straight or strong mix, there's no way I should drive a car. Mostly because I'm too busy laughing or sleeping.

Whereas last time I drank half a bottle of spirits I woke in a strange bed and could see my car out the window and had no recollection of how it got there.

Alcohol is one hell of a drug.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#266

Post by zzz157 »

_acme wrote: post #234
yolesaber wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let's just acquiesce to the whims of the state. Who cares about personal liberty or science or medicine or pharmacology? If anything, my experience with the state and it's drug prohibition, has made me want to smoke even more weed. Fuck the hick country cops who made me recite the alphabet backwards. Fuck the school admin who revoked my scholarship. I make six figures and travel the world for my job and for my p…

Is there any scientific evidence suggesting that marijuana treats depression or schizophrenia in any meaningful way? I don't believe so, which would suggest that you've merely been lucky not to have had additional episodes; for the safety of yourself and others, I would suggest you seek real, professional treatment and medication for your schizophrenia before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Depression, yes; see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/06/marijauna-depressio... .

There is no scientific evidence to suggest that OP has "just been lucky". There is also no evidence to suggest that OP is a threat to him/herself or anyone else; they simply noted that they had previously been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Also, Bupropion is an anti-depressant, not an anti-psychotic. And Xanax is a strong Benzodiazepine and also not in any way an antipsychotic. So the conditions that OP was treating were basically depression and anxiety, which scientific evidence shows Cannabis has positive impact on both.

Now, this should provide all of the evidence needed to contradict your ridiculousness, but, in case it doesn't, YES, certain constituent compounds of Cannabis DO INDEED treat schizophrenia (and, again, your insinuation that anyone claimed it /did/ treat schizophrenia is a bit illogical for reasons above). See here for more info: https://www.projectcbd.org/schizophrenia

CBD is a potent anti-psychotic and antianxiety/anticonvulsant. Granted, it's present in small relative amounts to THC in most strains, but CBD supplements are available in all of the Medical states. I take them almost daily for anxiety and anti-inflammatory reasons.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#267

Post by c22 »

_acme wrote: post #237
emp_zealoth wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once had to drive myself few hundred kilometers back home after a discharge from a psych ward - i was taking some new variation of activisation pill intended to make me less apathetic. While usually I am super careful, will yield/brake preventively to avoid an accident (haven't had one yet - in big part thanks to mindfulness and survival instict) - in the begining that medicine just threw it out the window. I quite…

How did you "quite literally" have a crash that didn't happen?

I think emp_zealoth quite literally passed a vehicle while an oncoming semi was in the opposing lane. A "close call" if you will.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#268

Post by yolesaber »

_acme wrote: post #234
yolesaber wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let's just acquiesce to the whims of the state. Who cares about personal liberty or science or medicine or pharmacology? If anything, my experience with the state and it's drug prohibition, has made me want to smoke even more weed. Fuck the hick country cops who made me recite the alphabet backwards. Fuck the school admin who revoked my scholarship. I make six figures and travel the world for my job and for my p…

Is there any scientific evidence suggesting that marijuana treats depression or schizophrenia in any meaningful way? I don't believe so, which would suggest that you've merely been lucky not to have had additional episodes; for the safety of yourself and others, I would suggest you seek real, professional treatment and medication for your schizophrenia before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Pal, I've gone through the whole rut of "professional" treatment. I've been seeing psychiatrists and psychologists since I was in the third grade. I went to several counselors throughout high school, some of them mandated some of them I found through my own research and references. I spent over two weeks in a serious inpatient facility where they open the door to your room every 10 minutes to make sure you haven't killed yourself yet. I had to be taken away on a stretcher and loaded into an ambulance while my parents looked on, baffled and confused as me. I've been on uppers, downers, SSRIs; I've done CBT and group therapy, I've meditated for hours on end, I've seen shrinks that cost $300/hr and I've spent my fair share talking to the shrink on the other end of the bar. But nothing has helped me as much as I feel weed has. Call it anecdata, but considering that I was having issues every few months or so for years...decades...until I started smoking weed well, I haven't had a problem in almost nine years so call me lucky.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#269

Post by yolesaber »

geierdmtr wrote: post #239
yolesaber wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let's just acquiesce to the whims of the state. Who cares about personal liberty or science or medicine or pharmacology? If anything, my experience with the state and it's drug prohibition, has made me want to smoke even more weed. Fuck the hick country cops who made me recite the alphabet backwards. Fuck the school admin who revoked my scholarship. I make six figures and travel the world for my job and for my p…

i feel you. I had an accident and called the police. got arrested, jailed and beaten by guards. first they claimed i was drunk (i dont drink). i could not not stand on one leg for 30 seconds. after brethalizer showed 0 they claimed i was on drugs. got jailed for 2 nights. blood test came back negative for everything 40 days later. they retested it and found wellbutrin and xanax in my blood, my prescription meds. xana…

I'm sorry to hear that. That's just god awful. The pursuit of "justice" in this country can make you really sick to your stomach sometimes. I hope everything turns out well for you, my friend.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#270

Post by zzz157 »

kdamken wrote: post #42

Do not read this and think it's okay to drive high. It's not. Do not drive high. Call an uber or something. I worry that people read studies like this and suddenly justify going out and driving while impaired. Driving is an incredibly dangerous activity on its own. Doing it when you're stoned is a stupid and risky move, and comparing it to how much more dangerous drunk driving is doesn't make it less stupid. If you'v…

It is nothing like functional alcoholism. Marijuana does not cause someone to become overconfident and make stupid decisions and take risks, and it doesn't cause any significant change in reaction time when used regularly. But, of course, a functional alcoholic would probably drive drunk slightly more safely than someone who rarely drinks. But the direct CNS effects of alcohol make alcohol a pretty direct safety risk in ways that marijuana is not.

Also, do you support the .08 legal limit for alcohol? That's about two drinks for most people. If you do, do you think Marijuana should be any different? Why could I have two drinks, but not two joints?

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