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Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

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Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#161

Post by btown »

numlocked wrote: post #140
a3camero wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although the "proposals" themselves are Ethereum "contracts" (programs), the thing that the money goes towards doesn't have to be a program. The most popular proposal for The DAO to invest in is actually a German corporation called Slock.it UG: https://www.online-handelsregister.de/handelsregisterauszug/... .

And Slock.it is the creator of The DAO...

It's a long process to check all the boxes for what makes a good proposal, so the fact that Slock.it had such a head start on any other potential proposers is more than a bit suspect. Perhaps there should be a proposal to lock all funds for, say, 45 days so there can be enough of a competitive environment for proposals?

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#163

Post by cloudjacker »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #138
cloudjacker wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and there are people that do want to be involved. They want to be part of the case law incongruences that will arise to solve disputes. They want to bring this to light so that the legacy system is presented with a better or more efficient way. Anyway, Slock.it a germany company is managing this asset, their liability is limited.

If they think they can somehow get limited liability protections in the U.S. without a legal incorporation, I think nearly any lawyer will tell them they won't have much of a case. No judge is going to decide that. You don't get limited liability protections just by acting like a corporation, you need to actually incorporate. It's pretty straightforward law with regard to that much. (I am not a lawyer).

The point is that they don't care about the US, or France, or Hong Kong, or Zimbabwe.

Also, the individual owners of DAO are not known and are entirely bearer assets. You and I could Shapeshift some bitcoin to Ether right now, exchange for DAO tokens, vote on proposals for the DAO that eventually cause a gigantic oil disaster and whatever unlimited liability a court finds for shareholders will stall forever because they can neither find the shareholder or freeze the assets on the DAO.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#165

Post by rboyd »

vectorpush wrote: post #160
rboyd wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if you and I enter a contract whether it is a written agreement or a smart contract on Ethereum network, that has no more or less bearing on the legal enforcement in the event of a breach. These contracts are enforced by math. Breaking them isn't a possibility. Whether or not The DAO works out or is a scam, I think it's a sign of things to come. We're in the beginning stages of seeing our traditional corporation…

> These contracts are enforced by math. Breaking them isn't a possibility. Math cannot "enforce" a contract, it can't even understand the terms of the agreement, much less enforce it. > We're in the beginning stages of seeing our traditional corporations and nation states morphing into something new and barely recognizable. This kind of hyperbolic nonsense strains credulity.

Smart contracts are enforced programmatically, that's kind of the point.

The future is always hard to believe until it's here.

You can say you disagree and state why. But please don't call me a gullible idiot and then try to dress it up in fancy vocabulary. This kind of reply seems common in your comment history, like you're just generally angry around blockchain threads for some reason.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#166

Post by drdeca »

c2315261 wrote: post #111
dragonwriter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, a corporation is a legal entity that must have directors and officers, aka people. OR, a corporation is a legal entity formed by a corporate charter that is treated as a person under the law. In any case, whatever these ethereum-based things are, they aren't corporations.

Ethereum still exists?

Yes

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#167

Post by dmix »

machinshin_ wrote: post #143
numlocked wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Slock.it is the creator of The DAO...

Sounds like money laundering to me

This sounds like a bad way to launder money, the logistics and scale issues make it impractical. Besides I doubt transferring $→ETH→DAO→ETH→$ is adding any extra obfuscation compared to $→ETH→$.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#168

Post by r00fus »

baddox wrote: post #139
drcode wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DAO isn't actually worth 120 million. I you tried to sell all Apple stock in a single day it would also sell at well below market rate- Does that mean Apple is worth less than its market cap? That said, I personally have not invested/speculated in the DAO because I just don't see it as a good opportunity.

> Does that mean Apple is worth less than its market cap? Well, it means you need to specify what you're talking about when you're talking about a company's "worth." Any time I read something like "public company X is worth Y dollars," I do look closely to see if they're talking about market cap.

Hardly anyone talks about revenue as being part of the "worth" of a tech company (maybe with retail, that makes sense). The Apple stock analogy is dead-on.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#170

Post by Taek »

pjc50 wrote: post #148
drcode wrote: post #7

TLDR; A computer program living on the ethereum blockchain is currently in control of 107+ million dollars, making it the second largest crowdfunded project in history. Shareholders vote on proposals to give money to other entities (probably also programs on the ethereum blockchain) that they hope will make money and send it to the parent contract. All votes are managed by a program written in EVM code, which runs on…

100% secure AFAIK the formal verification mechanism for EVM programs is not yet complete, so that's a risky claim. Not to mention that the people involved are interacting with it using ordinary PCs, so spear-phishing them might be the easiest way to steal the $120m.

And, to the best of my knowledge, it has not been reviewed by experts. Platforms like this are notoriously difficult to build securely.

Not to mention, there are huge liabilities from a legal/securities perspective.

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