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How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

blog.makewonder.com

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Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#41

Post by panic »

chongli wrote: post #31
kzhahou wrote: post #23

Why is BASIC totally left out? An entire generation was inspired by power-on basic in C64 and other platforms. More than just "inspired"... Some huge amount of today's technology wouldn't exist otherwise. I know I'm stuck in the past, but that's what I want for my kids. Flip open the laptop and boom, theres my programming environment, except now with easier graphics/sound APIs. Anyone know how to get this, without bu…

It's really hard to do something like that with kids today. They have so many options now between consoles, iPads, etc. There's way too much instant gratification. You're never again going to see a generation that has the patience to type in the source code to a game published in a magazine.

People have been saying "you're never again going to see a generation that has the patience to X" for generations, when really X is just no longer a thing anyone wants to do.

When was the last time you typed in source code from a magazine? These days we all expect software to be more complex than what you can fit on a printed page. People have patience for the things they find exciting: nobody is excited by dinky type-in games any more.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#42

Post by marianoguerra »

Last weekend I built a project to do music with sonic pi[1] using google's visual programming blocky[2], take a look if you are interested: https://github.com/marianoguerra/sonic-blocks

[1] http://sonic-pi.net/

[2] https://developers.google.com/blockly/

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#43

Post by thunderbong »

akkartik wrote: post #34

It is a perpetual puzzle to me why learning programming isn't considered to involve learning about functions. In my experience the hardest thing about programming is teaching people the facility of "uncoiling" in their heads the coiled representation of a loop or repeated calls of a function. That in turn requires as a prerequisite the ability to consider a function being called with multiple different inputs, and ho…

Scratch has the concept of functions. They are also called blocks. Custom blocks which kids can create. The blocks can take parameters and are conceptually identical to functions.

I don't know about the other languages mentioned though.

I prepare curriculum for Grades 4 and 5 on Programming using Scratch and Flowcharts and teach kids to create blocks whenever they see that functionalities are getting repeated.

Kids tend to learn a little differently compared to adults. Adults tend to want to know the 'big picture' before they begin and tend to have different preconceptions based on what they've learnt earlier. Kids' learning is much more playful, motivated more by inquisitiveness and curiosity. They don't have the urge to prove anything to anyone, including themselves.

At those grades, their brains are very flexible and they can think of strange combinations and the ultimate goal of having a program solve a problem is not the aim. Even after many years, I find it hard to let go of trying to guide kids towards a goal, rather than keeping my mind open to new things that they are able to see just because they're not motivated the same way we as adults are.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#44

Post by chongli »

panic wrote: post #41
chongli wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really hard to do something like that with kids today. They have so many options now between consoles, iPads, etc. There's way too much instant gratification. You're never again going to see a generation that has the patience to type in the source code to a game published in a magazine.

People have been saying "you're never again going to see a generation that has the patience to X" for generations, when really X is just no longer a thing anyone wants to do. When was the last time you typed in source code from a magazine? These days we all expect software to be more complex than what you can fit on a printed page. People have patience for the things they find exciting: nobody is excited by dinky typ…

I still type in source code when I'm going through tutorials for new languages or libraries. I find I absorb it better than I'd I copied and pasted.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#45

Post by biot »

kzhahou wrote: post #23

Why is BASIC totally left out? An entire generation was inspired by power-on basic in C64 and other platforms. More than just "inspired"... Some huge amount of today's technology wouldn't exist otherwise. I know I'm stuck in the past, but that's what I want for my kids. Flip open the laptop and boom, theres my programming environment, except now with easier graphics/sound APIs. Anyone know how to get this, without bu…

A tad more complicated than C64 BASIC, but: http://www.templeos.org/

Terry Davis (creator) likens it to the C64, though you're writing in CPP/ASM:

  "The vision for TempleOS, however, is a modern, 64-bit
   Commodore 64. The C64 was a non-networked, home computer
   mostly used for games. It trained my generation how to
   program because it was wide open, completely hackable. 
   The games were not multimedia works of art, but generated
   by non-artist."

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#46

Post by akkartik »

thunderbong wrote: post #43
akkartik wrote: post #34

It is a perpetual puzzle to me why learning programming isn't considered to involve learning about functions. In my experience the hardest thing about programming is teaching people the facility of "uncoiling" in their heads the coiled representation of a loop or repeated calls of a function. That in turn requires as a prerequisite the ability to consider a function being called with multiple different inputs, and ho…

Scratch has the concept of functions. They are also called blocks. Custom blocks which kids can create. The blocks can take parameters and are conceptually identical to functions. I don't know about the other languages mentioned though. I prepare curriculum for Grades 4 and 5 on Programming using Scratch and Flowcharts and teach kids to create blocks whenever they see that functionalities are getting repeated. Kids t…

That's true. Logo has functions too. But for all the innovation that has gone into making the notion of an instruction easy to learn, functions everywhere look the same. For example, why can't a function in Scratch change its shape based on the number of arguments?

When I learned programming it took me years to stop "ping-ponging" between bugs. I'd fix the most recently discovered bug, only to simultaneously break the second-most recently discovered bug. My students show the same behavior. That's a sure sign that just giving kids functions doesn't help them understand.

Your observations about the differences in learning strategies were useful, thanks.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#47

Post by TeMPOraL »

facepalm wrote: post #13
noamyoungerm wrote: post #3

Why aren't kids able to read text written in rows like everyone else? Programming languages just for kids seems mostly like a way to limit them.

Younger kids can't read yet.

When you're six you most likely can. And all those colorful blocks and smiling monkey-people look like something designed for one- or two-years-olds.

I was around 7 or 9 when I first saw QBasic. I definitely wasn't afraid of text at that age. The wonder of programming isn't in how it looks - it's in what it does.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#48

Post by dmoo »

kzhahou wrote: post #23

Why is BASIC totally left out? An entire generation was inspired by power-on basic in C64 and other platforms. More than just "inspired"... Some huge amount of today's technology wouldn't exist otherwise. I know I'm stuck in the past, but that's what I want for my kids. Flip open the laptop and boom, theres my programming environment, except now with easier graphics/sound APIs. Anyone know how to get this, without bu…

Have a look at Kano on the raspberry-Pi even if you don't buy the kit you can download the image. It is a really well put together package which I can't recommend highly enough. http://blog.kano.me

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#50

Post by jameshart »

duaneb wrote: post #36
jameshart wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hit F12 in a web browser. Hit / in minecraft (more effective if you install scriptcraft first). Open up a terminal window.

...none of these are "turn on and play". For any of the above, what's the command to draw a triangle?

What was it on the C64? I would have thought you would have had to write a program to do it. What is the command to spawn a zombie on the C64? Or to display a gif? Or to download data from an Internet service?
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