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How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

blog.makewonder.com

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Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#11

Post by mbubb »

I looked around the Make WOnder site for a github repo or something to download and try the language. Don't see it. How do we try this out?

I have co-taught a Scratch club 4 times for kids in the 10-12 yr old range. And will teach a Python club in the coming Fall semester for kids in the 10-14 yr old range. I am nto a real teacher but am lucky to work with a CS professor from a local college.

For the Python class I am thinking of a Raspberry Pi per kid, plus KVM. And NoStarch text as class material.

So how do I evaluate Make Wonder?

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#12

Post by burkaman »

noamyoungerm wrote: post #3

Why aren't kids able to read text written in rows like everyone else? Programming languages just for kids seems mostly like a way to limit them.

Because they aren't very good at reading yet, because they're kids. And for some reason, kids often prioritize having fun over using the most efficient representation possible.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#14

Post by jerluc »

neovive wrote: post #6
jerluc wrote: post #2

Does anyone know of any published research on the efficacy of this "block based programming" standard the author mentions? I can't seem to find anything on the subject in the Scratch website's "Research" section ( https://scratch.mit.edu/info/research/ ), and in their early papers they simply list it as a "core feature" rather than explaining why they use blocks in the first place.

I've been a CodeDojo and Scratch mentor for a few years and, although I haven't read much of the research, block-based programming fills a great niche for kids that know how to read, but have a hard time typing. Typing and syntax issues hinder the experience for very young children learning to code. Scratch allows children to learn computational thinking concepts through a creative computing experience. Keeping it si…

Ah that's a good point that both you and scottcha make regarding the typing strengths/weaknesses of children, which would make a typing-based approach maybe non-practical. I guess more generally what I was trying to better understand was whether or not the use of these fitted blocks (as I understand Scratch to do) has been studied enough to be considered more fruitful in developing an understanding of rudimentary programming rather than a more free-form way of doing so (maybe just blocks that can be combined in any way, even if they don't work as intended). Maybe said a slightly different way: why did MIT researchers choose to use a "coloring in the lines" method (which may hinder creativity and potentially interest)?

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#15

Post by expertmouser »

mbubb wrote: post #11

I looked around the Make WOnder site for a github repo or something to download and try the language. Don't see it. How do we try this out? I have co-taught a Scratch club 4 times for kids in the 10-12 yr old range. And will teach a Python club in the coming Fall semester for kids in the 10-14 yr old range. I am nto a real teacher but am lucky to work with a CS professor from a local college. For the Python class I a…

It's true it's not easy to evaluate the programming languages without a robot, but you can definitely get a feel for them by just running the apps - Wonder for state-machines (aka "flow-based programming") and Blockly for traditional Scratch-style programming.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#16

Post by jerluc »

methehack wrote: post #5

I've always been suspicious of the looks-like-an-animal-with-a-name-and-a-smiley-face-I'm-a-grown-up-and-this-is-what-kids-like approach. I remember one of the coolest things about the apple II was that you could 'poke' the right memory address and get the speaker to click. That was magic when I was 12 and it didn't need a friendly name and a stupid grin. Until they're old enough for K&R (12?, 13?, 14?), maybe they s…

I was certainly in a similar boat (though a later generation of computers) whereby I found around age 9 that "poking" at a computer (either plugging random things in, or clicking random buttons or keys) enough yielded some interesting/mildly entertaining results. Of course, many times, these results ended with being grounded for breaking something, but nonetheless, the endless possibilities of random keystrokes and mouse clicks seemed to exude some kind of strange primitive allure.

Also, K&R for kids ages 12-14?!

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#17

Post by jops »

punnerud wrote: post #4

[Follow up read] Why developers never use state machine: http://www.skorks.com/2011/09/why-developers-never-use-state...

State machines in games should be a lure enough for the kids: http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/state.html

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#18

Post by methehack »

jerluc wrote: post #16
methehack wrote: post #5

I've always been suspicious of the looks-like-an-animal-with-a-name-and-a-smiley-face-I'm-a-grown-up-and-this-is-what-kids-like approach. I remember one of the coolest things about the apple II was that you could 'poke' the right memory address and get the speaker to click. That was magic when I was 12 and it didn't need a friendly name and a stupid grin. Until they're old enough for K&R (12?, 13?, 14?), maybe they s…

I was certainly in a similar boat (though a later generation of computers) whereby I found around age 9 that "poking" at a computer (either plugging random things in, or clicking random buttons or keys) enough yielded some interesting/mildly entertaining results. Of course, many times, these results ended with being grounded for breaking something, but nonetheless, the endless possibilities of random keystrokes and m…

I agree it might be hyperbole (my downfall!) with the K&R bit, but I really don't think so.

I think by going through chapter 1 of K&R in slow motion you'd learn more than a year with mr turtle.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#19

Post by stephengillie »

noamyoungerm wrote: post #3

Why aren't kids able to read text written in rows like everyone else? Programming languages just for kids seems mostly like a way to limit them.

The first PC videogame I ever saw was a gorilla throwing a barrel at buildings. It was written in BASIC and came with our 286 back in 1989. I was really excited to learn how the monkey was drawn - out of the same ASCII blocks as everything else, obviously, but how? - and excitedly opened the file in a text editor.

It was a little overwhelming to my 7-year-old self to see just how many little subroutines and subprocesses were needed make the whole program work. It was a very complicated set of math processes, not unlike how a car engine is a very complicated set of physical processes. (I'd been helping with car repairs for a few years at this point, and rigged-up a pair of copper wires between the cable box and TV once when we only had 1 coax cable.)

Several years later, I was overjoyed to find the TI-82 calculators we were loaned in school could interpret the same BASIC commands, and happily started writing tiny utilities, competing with classmates for the coolest function, and joining debates about whether pre-programming the Quadratic Equation into a calculator counts as cheating on tests.

Despite setbacks like a lack of programming education in rural WA State in the early 1990s, that monkey throwing barrels planted the seed that made me want to write and understand software.

Re: How computer programming languages for kids have evolved and where they're going

#20

Post by twic »

methehack wrote: post #5

I've always been suspicious of the looks-like-an-animal-with-a-name-and-a-smiley-face-I'm-a-grown-up-and-this-is-what-kids-like approach. I remember one of the coolest things about the apple II was that you could 'poke' the right memory address and get the speaker to click. That was magic when I was 12 and it didn't need a friendly name and a stupid grin. Until they're old enough for K&R (12?, 13?, 14?), maybe they s…

> Until they're old enough for K&R (12?, 13?, 14?)

"If their age is on the clock, they're too young for malloc"?

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