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Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

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Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#41
post #22

Anyone know how to legally assign a corporation over to an autonomous system?

> Anyone know how to legally assign a corporation over to an autonomous system?

Step 1: Lobby for laws which allow legally assigning a corporations over to an autonomous system (or, more simply, laws which allow granting legal personhood to an autonomous system.)

Under current laws, I don't think there is any place in the world where this can be done. The creation of a corporation is an act of government (often, but not always, done at the request of a non-government person through a publicly-available application process, but some are directly created by the government on its own initiative.)

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#43
post #22

Anyone know how to legally assign a corporation over to an autonomous system?

The company Articles could require its directors to obey the direction of the autonomous system. And if it doesn't the autonomous system could direct the creation of another corporation with a mandate to sue the non compliant one.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#44
An interesting concept, but I'm not buying the hype.

At the end of the day a bunch of people bought shares in a company (or did they? Legality is weird) with the special condition that in addition to owning a share of said company they also get to vote on what the company actually does, and even submit proposals for what it should do.

Oh, and they also bought said shares with cryptocurrency. Magic internet money guys!

Admittedly I think enabling this kind of democracy in a company is a bad idea. It might actually wind up being less nimble than an actual corporation because of the extra consensus required.

Meanwhile, even though one might assume that the shareholders might be more informed than "the common mob", they might still propose and vote on more misses than, say, a corporation where new products and services are proposed through an informed internal decision making process that ultimately ends in the CEO using the information at his or her disposable to make the final decision. In a good corporation, bad decisions are self-correcting, in some cases leading to such extremes as a leadership shuffle.

By contrast, who's to blame if the DAO votes on a proposal that wound up being a miss? How do they learn from their mistakes so it doesn't happen again?

And I'm sure there are many other issues, but those are at the top of my list. I'd rather a company be run by those most capable, rather than the crowd.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#45
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can 'split' the DAO at any point of time, which renders the 51% attack moot. A 51% attack works only when the attacker can get more than what he puts in. Consider this obvious attack vector: Let's say today is the last crowdfunding day, and the DAO has raised $150 million so far. A wealthy attacker can immediately put another $150 million, effectively controlling 50% of the voting for the DAO, and then vote to…

> which renders the 51% attack moot. Well, I'm not sure I'd use such absolute language. For one thing, people can still perform a 51% attack and try to influence decisions covertly, without triggering a split. Also, the spectre of a 51% attack required for some major compromises to be made in the DAO design- Having a company that can arbitrarily split at any moment is likely to have a major impact on the future opera…

You're right, I shouldn't have used an absolute language. There is also the issue of voter apathy so yes, a 51% attack might be worthy of a try for a wealthy enough adversary.

In terms of the split, if the community broadly agrees that there is an attack, then I don't see it having a long-term detriment. However, as you said, if it is more 'stealthy' then it would be harder to detect and correct.

All that being said, I think there is a theoretical safety mechanism in place. Whether that will work in real life or not, we'll wait and see. I am sure some good lessons will come out of this in either case and the next generation of applications can improve upon some shortcomings.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#46
post #36

The DAO isn't actually worth 120 million. For one, it's based on the price of ETH, which would completely crash if you attempted to sell even a few million worth. Secondly, everyone can withdraw their funds from the DAO before any funds are sent to projects. Many have invested because those who invested early make money from those investing later, since the number of "DAO tokens" you get per "ETH" has gone down over…

> The DAO isn't actually worth 120 million.

I you tried to sell all Apple stock in a single day it would also sell at well below market rate- Does that mean Apple is worth less than its market cap?

That said, I personally have not invested/speculated in the DAO because I just don't see it as a good opportunity.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#47

An interesting concept, but I'm not buying the hype. At the end of the day a bunch of people bought shares in a company (or did they? Legality is weird) with the special condition that in addition to owning a share of said company they also get to vote on what the company actually does, and even submit proposals for what it should do. Oh, and they also bought said shares with cryptocurrency. Magic internet money guys…

I'm a big ethereum fan but I agree 100% with your analysis.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#48
post #9

> Currently only the privileged can found and fund new companies. What? It's about $200 in Seattle to file to register a Limited Liability Company. It's a stretch to call that 'only the privileged'.

There is also the Small-Business Administration, which can fast-track certain well-known types of companies. As an example: say you were a woman who had served time in the military and are trying to setup a hair salon. There are two incentive programs for your demographic specifically, and an additional set of resources for your business specifically. You'd basically get an "account manager" from the SBA who has setup several of these before, such that the experience is practically turnkey and requires very little of your own money.

Now, if you're trying to do something really risky like make a smartphone app, no, you're probably not going to get anywhere with the SBA. They aren't VCs making bets on long-shots. But they are more willing than a bank to work with you and help you get set up.

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#49
post #6

the article doesn't actually explain the "autonomous" bit imo. This looks rather more like a distributed decision making platform. Say, liquid democracy + ethereum, rather than Accelerando-style "sentient alien corporations". Noticeably, the DAO does not seem to be able to make any decision, it does things through proposals suggested by people which are voted on. Still cool anyway.

I suppose there are a couple of ways to view this:

- The DAO is a tool for people to make decisions collectively, by pooling their resources, voting on activities, and having Ethereum take care of trust issues. This is what you've described.

- Alternatively, The DAO could be described as similar to a computer virus: it tries to survive by spreading into as many systems as possible, using their computational resources to propagate itself further; but crucially its behaviour is completely determined by its code, rather than acting as an interpreter for centrally-issued commands (like, say, a botnet or Seti@Home).

While most computer viruses are parasitic, The DAO could be seen as symbiotic: in return for the resources it uses, it provides the services described above. It could be described as social engineering, like that of the ILOVEYOU virus, although it's not a trick (as far as we know).

In the case of The DAO in particular, the first description probably makes the most sense. However, I'd say Ethereum applications in general are better described by the latter. For example, a gambling application like etheroll could persist completely independently on the network for as long as people are willing to gamble with it, spending part of its commission on resources ("gas").

Re: Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest crowdfunded project

#50
What a bunch of snake oil.

If you invested or are thinking of investing ask yourself a few simple questions. Who are the Shareholders/Directors/Officers of this corporation? Do you know what state it is incorporated in or going to be incorporated in?

Just a few buzz words. Decentralized? No shit, any corporation with more than one shareholder is decentralized. Smart contracts? Defined as a self enforcing contract, guess what they don't exist. Autonomous? I'd like to see how this code is independently filing annual reports and preparing taxes sending out K-1's to its shareholders autonomously, because that alone would be an enterprise solution every single corporation in the US would pay top dollar for, because DAO just singlehandedly replaced corporate compliance lawyers and CPAs with code.

Still not convinced and eager to get in on this? Then why not cut out the middle man? Create your own "DAO" as an Investment Club (Corp or LLC) the only issue is you will be capped at 100 members/voters/token holders and $25M in investment. But you will be able to tell people your created your own decentralized corporation every bit as autonomous as DAO, complete with 100 tokens people can buy to become a member/shareholder and use to vote on investment opportunities presented by the DAO or members/shareholders of the DAO.

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