Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#81

Post by pjlegato » Sun, May 15, 2016, 10:48 PM UTC

Tomte wrote: post #73

pjlegato wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States has no such system. Neither residents nor foreign travelers are required to register their address with anyone when in the US.

Strange. Every time I've visited the US I've had to specify at immigration where I'd be staying...

Entering the US requires an initial contact address on the arrival form. Once in, you can then go stay whereever you like, without any further address registration update requirement.

This is as opposed to Russia and China, where foreigners are required to notify the government of every address they ever stay at.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#82

Post by Aissen » Mon, May 16, 2016, 7:58 AM UTC

palunon wrote: post #77

Aissen wrote: post #53

The situation is similar in France, with the HADOPI(3-strike law) adding a "neglect" infraction for lack of securing your Internet access. So you're indirectly responsible of piracy, but won't pay fines for it, only for negligence of securing your wireless network (ie running an open network). It's pretty comical and hard to apply, and only one person has been sentenced in the 7 years of this law. Luckily, there's al…

>only one person has been sentenced in the 7 years of this law. That's not true. At the end of 2015, about 31 people were found guilty. https://nextinpact.com/news/96525-hadopi-plusieurs-abonnes-c...

But how many were condemned specifically for "neglect" ? I'm guessing it's not that many. Anyway, even if it's 31 people, it's still a very low number considering the money spent there.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#83

Post by ascagnel_ » Mon, May 16, 2016, 12:33 PM UTC

dave2000 wrote: post #76

chokma wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still a problem even if the Störerhaftung (WIFI-owner being liable for misuse) is removed: When the police comes looking for someone distributing CP, they go by the IP address and take everything that remotely looks like a computer for forensic examination. So, having an open WIFI is like painting a huge target on your back, albeit a somewhat smaller one when media companies are removed from the list of poten…

Well, no, if the law says "anyone can run open wifi, and any suspicious use there should be investigated, and not just taken as read that the person who owns the wifi is the user of it" then the moment permission is sought to raid the place it should be denied immediately until there's some evidence the person running the wifi also committed the crime. If that's written into the law; if at the point a warrant is soug…

Except that there is evidence to show that the specific equipment was used to commit a crime. You'd be hard-pressed to provide a legal standard that prevented police from obtaining permission from a court to seize that evidence as part of their investigation, even if the owner isn't implicated.

It's not too dissimilar from a shop owner being forced to give up security camera footage -- the owner is not being targeted in the investigation, and there's plenty of unrelated footage, but there is a high likelihood of relevant evidence existing.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#84

Post by Scoundreller » Tue, May 17, 2016, 2:03 AM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #56

Scoundreller wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more problematic when you're transiting through a German airport, and practically fall off the face of the earth. Ohhhh, they have a wifi hotspot portal: "Enter your cell phone number to get an SMS with a 30 minute code". You want me to turn on my cell-phone and potentially incur roaming charges now? I hear things have gotten better in Frankfurt and you only have to provide an email address. How did they skirt t…

Are there really subscription plans where merely turning a phone on and receiving an SMS incurs roaming charges? Typically people just disable "data roaming" when travelling internationally, at least until one reaches and can lock to a "friendly" 3G/4G network. Thus there are no charges for IP traffic including MMS, and SMS reception is always free because you cannot turn it off. (I still agree that WLAN at German ai…

> Are there really subscription plans...

Welcome to Canada... (It's not as pricey as it used to be, but who knows how many SMSs you might have queued up)

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#85

Post by newscasta » Wed, May 18, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

pjlegato wrote: post #71

Tomte wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreigners? Probably, but I haven't checked. But how is that unusual? China, Russia and the US all require that. Citizens and everyone else with a residence permit don't have to register temporary whereabouts ("for a few nights").

The United States has no such system. Neither residents nor foreign travelers are required to register their address with anyone when in the US.

Not sure if the law changed, but for the 12 years I was on student (F1) and then work (H1) visa I had to notify INS if I changed of address. If you are traveling internationally frequently there was no need to separately inform them because you would do it on your entry form, but I've had to send a special form once when I moved and wasn't planning to travel for a while. This was about 10 years ago so things might have changed.