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Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

arstechnica.co.uk

71–80 of 85 posts

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#71
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another unusual German law is having to register your location with the police, even where you're staying when you travel to other parts of Germany for a few nights.

Foreigners? Probably, but I haven't checked. But how is that unusual? China, Russia and the US all require that. Citizens and everyone else with a residence permit don't have to register temporary whereabouts ("for a few nights").

The United States has no such system. Neither residents nor foreign travelers are required to register their address with anyone when in the US.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More precisely: for example hotels typically have a public wifi for their customers, but you must get an individual login account from the reception. This protects the hotel or its service provider. It is quite silly, of course, and is generally a little hassle with your hotel.

It's more problematic when you're transiting through a German airport, and practically fall off the face of the earth. Ohhhh, they have a wifi hotspot portal: "Enter your cell phone number to get an SMS with a 30 minute code". You want me to turn on my cell-phone and potentially incur roaming charges now? I hear things have gotten better in Frankfurt and you only have to provide an email address. How did they skirt t…

For reference, CGN airport has no-login free wifi and gives you zero bullshit.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreigners? Probably, but I haven't checked. But how is that unusual? China, Russia and the US all require that. Citizens and everyone else with a residence permit don't have to register temporary whereabouts ("for a few nights").

The United States has no such system. Neither residents nor foreign travelers are required to register their address with anyone when in the US.

Strange. Every time I've visited the US I've had to specify at immigration where I'd be staying...

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#74
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreigners? Probably, but I haven't checked. But how is that unusual? China, Russia and the US all require that. Citizens and everyone else with a residence permit don't have to register temporary whereabouts ("for a few nights").

It's not just foreigners, it's everyone in Germany. I'm not that familiar with the details though. No such thing is required in most of the West I think. In practice, an ordinary life leaves an ample paper (and digital) trail, but you can legally live "off the grid" if you'd like. On the other end, the US is pretty unique in that you don't have to notify the government that you're leaving the country. I believe recen…

Wrong. We have to register our place of residence, that's true. But I can visit friends somewhere else for months and not notify anybody (well, I should notify my friends...). Because I'm not taking up residence there.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#75
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just foreigners, it's everyone in Germany. I'm not that familiar with the details though. No such thing is required in most of the West I think. In practice, an ordinary life leaves an ample paper (and digital) trail, but you can legally live "off the grid" if you'd like. On the other end, the US is pretty unique in that you don't have to notify the government that you're leaving the country. I believe recen…

Wrong. We have to register our place of residence, that's true. But I can visit friends somewhere else for months and not notify anybody (well, I should notify my friends...). Because I'm not taking up residence there.

[deleted]

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#76
post #38

The infamous CP card is usually played by backwards-minded conservatives but it was, is and keeps being a potential big problem when you open your Wifi to the public. Also other criminal online activities.

This is still a problem even if the Störerhaftung (WIFI-owner being liable for misuse) is removed: When the police comes looking for someone distributing CP, they go by the IP address and take everything that remotely looks like a computer for forensic examination. So, having an open WIFI is like painting a huge target on your back, albeit a somewhat smaller one when media companies are removed from the list of poten…

Well, no, if the law says "anyone can run open wifi, and any suspicious use there should be investigated, and not just taken as read that the person who owns the wifi is the user of it" then the moment permission is sought to raid the place it should be denied immediately until there's some evidence the person running the wifi also committed the crime. If that's written into the law; if at the point a warrant is sought, or if at the start of a court case the defence can just say "this case should be tossed out; you aren't allowed to go after people running free wifi" then there would be no point in going after the people providing free wifi. After all, no-one goes after the ISPs.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#77
post #53

The situation is similar in France, with the HADOPI(3-strike law) adding a "neglect" infraction for lack of securing your Internet access. So you're indirectly responsible of piracy, but won't pay fines for it, only for negligence of securing your wireless network (ie running an open network). It's pretty comical and hard to apply, and only one person has been sentenced in the 7 years of this law. Luckily, there's al…

>only one person has been sentenced in the 7 years of this law.

That's not true. At the end of 2015, about 31 people were found guilty.

https://nextinpact.com/news/96525-hadopi-plusieurs-abonnes-c...

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#78
post #68

It's just common sense... Can a ISP be liable for what it's user do? An open Wi-Fi hotspot is basically an ISP....

If a restaurant lets their customers use their phone are they liable if the customer uses the phone for illegal purposes?

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just foreigners, it's everyone in Germany. I'm not that familiar with the details though. No such thing is required in most of the West I think. In practice, an ordinary life leaves an ample paper (and digital) trail, but you can legally live "off the grid" if you'd like. On the other end, the US is pretty unique in that you don't have to notify the government that you're leaving the country. I believe recen…

Wrong. We have to register our place of residence, that's true. But I can visit friends somewhere else for months and not notify anybody (well, I should notify my friends...). Because I'm not taking up residence there.

I stand corrected.

Re: Germany plans to remove owner liability for piracy on open Wi-Fi hotspots–report

#80
To be perfectly honest- everyone ignored it. That seems to be the role of the lawmakers lately. Make some law to comfort the elderly and ignorant- then don't enforce it and clear up the mess and damages created by the chilling effect. Ironically it wont even save those ISPs it was made to protect for, which paid ridiculosis amounts of money for smartphone frequency's.
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