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The high price of a free college education in Sweden

theatlantic.com

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Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#21

Post by curiouslurker »

charlesism wrote: post #6

I don't see any content in that piece aside from: - University is free in Sweden. - Sweden has a high cost of living. - Young people in Southern Europe are more likely to live at home, though the cause of this isn't clear. The title and start of this article sound like the author has some sort of agenda to promote, but there's so little substance that I still can't tell.

Agreed. I skimmed over it and reached the same conclusion. I upvoted it anyway so it could get more comments and I could come back and get any other insights from the scary smart HN community!

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#22

Post by realitycheckxxx »

1. College is not free. It is paid for by parents/grandparents/relatives/friends of the end consumer through very high taxes. It's really a marketing trick - kinda like how these startups call something 'sharing (economy)', when in fact people are trading, not sharing. If the college wasn't labeled "free" and financed through high taxation, then parents/grandparents/relatives/friends would have to pay it anyway if the end consumer wants to go. So, they are paying whether the college is labeled as "free" or not (either through high taxes or directly).

2. The fact that college is labeled as "free", for the end consumer, makes making bad decisions easier. So, you will see a lot of dumb people who are bad at math, physics, computer science, chemistry, trades etc. going to these "free" colleges to study some worthless bullcrap like sociology, psychology, journalism, economics, gender studies, philosophy etc. That way, they will waste a lot of tax dollars and what do taxpayers get in return? Nothing. They get arrogant and entitled dummies who might become socialists/communists/feminists/feel_the_bern and bitch about nonsense and how the world is unfair, when in fact they are the parasites. You'll see some of them becoming 'diversity officers' or government bureaucrats sucking even more tax dollars.

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#23

Post by [deleted] »

alderz wrote: post #13
charlesism wrote: post #6

I don't see any content in that piece aside from: - University is free in Sweden. - Sweden has a high cost of living. - Young people in Southern Europe are more likely to live at home, though the cause of this isn't clear. The title and start of this article sound like the author has some sort of agenda to promote, but there's so little substance that I still can't tell.

I think the article makes a point you are missing: early emancipation drives baby-making and family unit formation, which is one of the biggest sociological problems nowadays. This is the cause of student's debt, as they don't live off their parents. The clickbait title misses the thesis completely.

[deleted]

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#24

Post by guard-of-terra »

realitycheckxxx wrote: post #22

1. College is not free. It is paid for by parents/grandparents/relatives/friends of the end consumer through very high taxes. It's really a marketing trick - kinda like how these startups call something 'sharing (economy)', when in fact people are trading, not sharing. If the college wasn't labeled "free" and financed through high taxation, then parents/grandparents/relatives/friends would have to pay it anyway if th…

You are assuming that most people are "stupid" and therefore not qualified to study at college. That reeks of highly stratified society like the USA is.

I guess nordic coutries just consider that most people are good enough for high education and high education should be able to teach all these people. And nordic countries tend to ace it; they are at the top of all the "human capital quality" ratings.

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#25

Post by realitycheckxxx »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #24
realitycheckxxx wrote: post #22

1. College is not free. It is paid for by parents/grandparents/relatives/friends of the end consumer through very high taxes. It's really a marketing trick - kinda like how these startups call something 'sharing (economy)', when in fact people are trading, not sharing. If the college wasn't labeled "free" and financed through high taxation, then parents/grandparents/relatives/friends would have to pay it anyway if th…

You are assuming that most people are "stupid" and therefore not qualified to study at college. That reeks of highly stratified society like the USA is. I guess nordic coutries just consider that most people are good enough for high education and high education should be able to teach all these people. And nordic countries tend to ace it; they are at the top of all the "human capital quality" ratings.

No, no... I didn't write that most people are stupid (where did you read that?). I wrote that there are certain people who, when given the opportunity to study something for free, will pick really bad majors, like sociology, anthropology etc. Then, those people will have a hard time finding productive employment and some of them might even join the bloated public sector and suck even more tax dollars. The existence of those people doesn't benefit society. Also, they will be heavily politically indoctrinated in leftist ideologies(socialism, communism, modern feminism) that promote wealth redistribution. Why is that appealing to sociology/anthropology majors? Because they are incompetent parasites who don't participate in production chain of anything they consume. So, they attach themselves to ideologies that promote wealth distribution from producers to parasites, all disguised as feminism/anti-oppression/progressivism etc.

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#26

Post by charlesism »

realitycheckxxx wrote: post #22

1. College is not free. It is paid for by parents/grandparents/relatives/friends of the end consumer through very high taxes. It's really a marketing trick - kinda like how these startups call something 'sharing (economy)', when in fact people are trading, not sharing. If the college wasn't labeled "free" and financed through high taxation, then parents/grandparents/relatives/friends would have to pay it anyway if th…

I like to think that some of them will use that free education to develop cures for diseases, cheaper sources of energy, faster computers, etc.

I think about my fellow people the way I think about immigration... neither inherently good nor inherently bad for a society. If an immigrant is a brilliant physicist, it's a plus, whereas if an immigrant is a drug lord, it's a minus.

I'd rather live in a society surrounded by educated people, even if some of them choose a flakey major, or don't agree with all my views. That the people who get a "free education" also benefit from it themselves is just an added bonus.

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#27

Post by themartorana »

alderz wrote: post #13
charlesism wrote: post #6

I don't see any content in that piece aside from: - University is free in Sweden. - Sweden has a high cost of living. - Young people in Southern Europe are more likely to live at home, though the cause of this isn't clear. The title and start of this article sound like the author has some sort of agenda to promote, but there's so little substance that I still can't tell.

I think the article makes a point you are missing: early emancipation drives baby-making and family unit formation, which is one of the biggest sociological problems nowadays. This is the cause of student's debt, as they don't live off their parents. The clickbait title misses the thesis completely.

In my circle of friends in the US - where we were from lower middle class families, didn't live at home past 19, didn't get any college tuition help from our families (there was none to give) and worked the entire time we were in school, still taking on large amounts of debt, none of us had a baby below 30, and for most closer to 35.

In the reverse, kids that didn't leave home after high school (and seemed ill prepared for the shock of the real world) seemed to have children much younger, often while or shortly after attending community college, living with their parents or just down the street.

My experience is highly anecdotal (and maybe stereotype-enforcing) and I would think that it differs depending on where you're from as well (I'm from the Northeast). But it's rather the opposite of this take-away.

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#28

Post by Futurebot »

avs733 wrote: post #17
purplelobster wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some doing easier course work might. Engineering though? Mutually exclusive at 60+ hours a week workload

nonsense. I typically worked at least 30 hrs a week while a full time engineering student. There were some semesters that I was TA'ing 15 or so hours per week and working another 20-30. Honestly I did better then because I was forced to focus on time management. EDIT: I should add that a lot of this was by necessity because of American college costs...but I look at it as a long term benefit for me personally.

1) Not everyone can do that, physically or mentally 2) Costs have increased so much, wages have not kept up to allow that to be possible for most people: http://www.vox.com/2015/8/28/9220705/college-working-map

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#29

Post by Futurebot »

It's true that Sweden/Finland don't do quite as well in this area as places like Denmark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_loans_in_Denmark), Germany, or France, all of which supply are fairly generous with living cost grants for students.

Compared to US students, though, they're doing great.

Re: The high price of a free college education in Sweden

#30

Post by guard-of-terra »

realitycheckxxx wrote: post #25
guard-of-terra wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming that most people are "stupid" and therefore not qualified to study at college. That reeks of highly stratified society like the USA is. I guess nordic coutries just consider that most people are good enough for high education and high education should be able to teach all these people. And nordic countries tend to ace it; they are at the top of all the "human capital quality" ratings.

No, no... I didn't write that most people are stupid (where did you read that?). I wrote that there are certain people who, when given the opportunity to study something for free, will pick really bad majors, like sociology, anthropology etc. Then, those people will have a hard time finding productive employment and some of them might even join the bloated public sector and suck even more tax dollars. The existence o…

I definitely understand your concern, but in my opinion benefits for society outweight costs, and the leftist-leaning of modern society should be fixed not in University but in different places (direct democracy anyone?)
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