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New Common Lisp website

lisp-lang.org

11–20 of 54 posts

Re: New Common Lisp website

#11

Can someone explain to me the main differences between a language like Common Lisp and Haskell? I'm planning on learning on a purely functional language this year and I've narrowed it down to Haskell and CL but I don't know which to pick. Haskell has sort of been winning due to my friends knowing it and using it. If you have any resources as well, please let me know. I don't know if this is the right place to post th…

Common Lisp is not a purely functional language.

The most caracteristic feature of Lisp in general is that, its whole syntax is the literal representation of one of it's core datatypes, the linked list. This allows for creating idioms of arbitrary complexity and reusable abstractions with ease, one a tiny kernel.

Another wording of this is that the Lisp family of languages represent their programs as data that those programs directly manipulate, and thus, programs can manipulate themselves. This is homoiconicity.

For who likes laconicisms, Lisp is a pleasant way to write and execute a parse tree.

The advantage to this is that you can create syntactic abstractions that fit in nicely, that work on structured data instead of strings not parsed and verified yet (hey CPP!) and are reusable by other abstractions.

The disadvantage is that your set of abstractions can become very easily dialects, and the language ecosystem is prone to (and damned by) fragmentation (i.e. every Scheme has it's own module system, and then there's a late standard that nobody uses).

Another advantage of Lisp, though not unique to it neither theoretically nor practically, is the image, that is, the state of the interpreter. Your average Lisp process is code running on a Lisp VM, and the VM allows you to modify the running code. This allows you to pause the thread when an exception happens, modify the code, and play it again, and the program uses the new, modified version of the code. These are called restarts and supported at least in Steel Bank Common Lisp, and are well integrated into SLIME, the canonical Emacs mode for Common Lisp and other uncommon (!) lisps. This is so powerfull, I read that in one space mission, when they spotted a bug in the code of a research apparatus already in space, they connected to its image and hotpatched the code fixing the bug, saving NASA millions of dollars.

Re: New Common Lisp website

#12
post #7

Can someone explain to me the main differences between a language like Common Lisp and Haskell? I'm planning on learning on a purely functional language this year and I've narrowed it down to Haskell and CL but I don't know which to pick. Haskell has sort of been winning due to my friends knowing it and using it. If you have any resources as well, please let me know. I don't know if this is the right place to post th…

CL is not purely functional language. CL is either multi-paradigm language or Lisp paradigm language. There is lisp style programming. It has many functional primitives but typical CL programmer is not programming functionally. Other languages like Scheme or Clojure are more functionally 'oriented' Lisps.

Ah I see. I guess I got confused somewhere. Thanks for the clarification.

Re: New Common Lisp website

#14

Click specification: "We're currently working on parsing the TeX sources of the specification to generate a more modern version of the CLHS. This might take a while." Yeah, that's probably not the message you want to send after all the virtues (e.g. speed) listed on the first page.

Why? They're just being honest about it. It's a large spec and it surely isn't that easy to convert it to a more modern format.

Put up a pdf (if you have TeX you can get a pdf), but don't make some technical argument that makes you sound slow. This is marketing not a technical talk.

Re: New Common Lisp website

#15
post #10

I hate the current trend for websites to have about a page's worth of information spread over about eight pages' worth of space. I'm used to seeing it on startup websites, where it doesn't bother me so much because I expect those to be trendy. But I'm recently seeing it infect websites of old school geek projects that I feel should know better. This is one example and the new emacs website a few days ago was another.

I'll allow it. Lisp in general (and Common Lisp in particular) desperately needs better marketing, which unfortunately is susceptible to the vagaries of fashion. If dressing it up a little makes it more attractive to the next generation, then mission accomplished.

Re: New Common Lisp website

#16
post #10

I hate the current trend for websites to have about a page's worth of information spread over about eight pages' worth of space. I'm used to seeing it on startup websites, where it doesn't bother me so much because I expect those to be trendy. But I'm recently seeing it infect websites of old school geek projects that I feel should know better. This is one example and the new emacs website a few days ago was another.

I'll allow it. Lisp in general (and Common Lisp in particular) desperately needs better marketing, which unfortunately is susceptible to the vagaries of fashion. If dressing it up a little makes it more attractive to the next generation, then mission accomplished.

You're right. Perhaps I just feel a little sad that it's necessary, though.

Re: New Common Lisp website

#17
Not sure if bug, but the right curly double quotes in the CL snippets bother me way more than they probably should. In the source, it's simply a " character, so the CSS is likely conflicting somewhere.

Re: New Common Lisp website

#18
post #5

Here is PG's note on ITA software from 2001 http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html It's all good stuff but I would wonder about any language community that hadn't gotten any other big hitters onboard in the last 15 years.

Grammarly is pretty recent: http://tech.grammarly.com/blog/posts/Running-Lisp-in-Product...

Re: New Common Lisp website

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? They're just being honest about it. It's a large spec and it surely isn't that easy to convert it to a more modern format.

Put up a pdf (if you have TeX you can get a pdf), but don't make some technical argument that makes you sound slow. This is marketing not a technical talk.

The CLHS[1] they mentioned has been available online for ages. What they're talking about is making a more modern site. Generating a PDF from the spec wouldn't get them any closer to that goal.

[1]: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index...

Re: New Common Lisp website

#20

Click specification: "We're currently working on parsing the TeX sources of the specification to generate a more modern version of the CLHS. This might take a while." Yeah, that's probably not the message you want to send after all the virtues (e.g. speed) listed on the first page.

It's a giant collection of TeX files from 1994. It's not easily converted into a proper, parseable format.
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