Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#41

Post by dominotw » Fri, May 13, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #25

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #20

What cracks me up is this proclamation made by said author[0]: Over the 200 waking hours, I managed to hit the standard needed. It felt like multiple lucky answers and lots of Googling that got me there, but that’s how learning works. I learnt enough Javascript to get accepted onto the course and I spent another 3 months, with 15 others, Googling things together and creating a new app each week. Now I’m being paid to…

200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.

Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another.

Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#42

Post by thevibesman » Fri, May 13, 2016, 2:31 PM UTC

CameronBanga wrote: post #10

Few things grind my gears like the idea that a person who cares about products being usable and well designed is inherently a "hipster".

This seems like your baggage not the author's; I'm not sure that she ever said what she meant by hipster. I read it differently.

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#43

Post by marodox » Fri, May 13, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #38

>After some more standard interview prep and a short interview at Crowdcube a few days later accompanied by my newly filled little black book I got taken on for the job. Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews . I really need to work on my (non existent ) people skills.

> Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews .

I just went through my most humiliating whiteboard interview last week. Never knew how bad it could get until that...

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#44

Post by dominotw » Fri, May 13, 2016, 2:56 PM UTC

marodox wrote: post #43

dominotw wrote: post #38

>After some more standard interview prep and a short interview at Crowdcube a few days later accompanied by my newly filled little black book I got taken on for the job. Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews . I really need to work on my (non existent ) people skills.

> Meanwhile, I am being humiliated by stupid whiteboard interviews . I just went through my most humiliating whiteboard interview last week. Never knew how bad it could get until that...

I've come to a realization that no matter how much we complain about it, there is no way around it.

No matter how experienced you are you have to face this everytime you change jobs.

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#45

Post by onion2k » Fri, May 13, 2016, 3:07 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #41

onion2k wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.

Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another. Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .

Coding knowledge is a long way down the list of things that a startup needs from a developer, especially a junior level one. Enthusiasm, willing to do boring stuff, personality, culture fit[1], a low salary, etc are all far more important. Maybe you don't have one or more of those attributes.

[1] I hate 'culture fit' as a reason to employ someone. Employing people who fit in with the existing culture is a fast track to creating a business completely lacking in diversity.

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#46

Post by danielhooper » Fri, May 13, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

zappo2938 wrote: post #2

"Apply for jobs you’re a bit under qualified for. Most job descriptions describe the perfect candidate. Those features are a wish list not a must have. This applies even more in start-ups where genuine passion for the company gets you a long way." This sound like very good advice.

As a currently unemployed developer I take this advice everyday but it really hasn't generated any results (and it really shouldn't be at my current experience level).

I've heard countless times from other developers that they would be happy to hire a competent programmer with no familiarity with their stack because it's better than waiting 6 months to find a dev with the preferred experience. I've never seen or heard about this in practice.

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#47

Post by danielhooper » Fri, May 13, 2016, 3:13 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #41

onion2k wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.

Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another. Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .

I've taught basic programming skills and concepts to people who are kicking my ass finding jobs too. It's tough.

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#48

Post by digi_owl » Fri, May 13, 2016, 3:38 PM UTC

brashrat wrote: post #40

CameronBanga wrote: post #10

Few things grind my gears like the idea that a person who cares about products being usable and well designed is inherently a "hipster".

few things grind my gears like hipsters telling me how much THEY care about products being usable LIKE IT'S SOME SORT OF NEW IDEA, like they are the ONLY ONES WHO CARE. beards and winter hats in summer seem, counter intuitively, to incubate a lot of unique little snowflakes.

If you want to preserve snow through the summer, heavy insulation is key.

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#49

Post by MollyR » Fri, May 13, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #41

onion2k wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 hours self-taught followed by 3 months at, say, 80 hours a week is 1160 hours in total. I imagine there are people who spend less time learning to code during a 3 year university course. Plus her learning would be very specifically focused on startup-oriented JavaScript instead of trying to cover everything. I see no reason why the statement "So I can code." should be wrong.

Man that kind of makes me sad that I've wasted so much of my life over the past decade learning one useless 'skill' after another. Its a sad realization that someone who only started coding 3 months ago is kicking my ass finding jobs at startups meanwhile I am being rejected( when they respond) constantly .

Sometimes it's not only skill, but what they think they should pay you. I've seen more skilled candidates avoided because my company didn't want to pay them their worth.

Re: Not a Hacker or a Hipster – How I Got My First Startup Job

#50

Post by mmartinson » Fri, May 13, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

cm3 wrote: post #30

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #20

What cracks me up is this proclamation made by said author[0]: Over the 200 waking hours, I managed to hit the standard needed. It felt like multiple lucky answers and lots of Googling that got me there, but that’s how learning works. I learnt enough Javascript to get accepted onto the course and I spent another 3 months, with 15 others, Googling things together and creating a new app each week. Now I’m being paid to…

It would be okay if prototypes would be prototypes, but in the software field prototypes are too often taken into production. It's like a designer giving you a small model how they envision it. You don't expect to shrink yourself and live in the model house out of paper. It should be the same with software. Just recall the struggle with Twitter's MVP that failed to be available. Maybe we should differentiate between…

I agree that there is a lot of space for distinction between the kind of work that people are doing in the software field, but I see prototypes being thrown into production as a hugely positive thing, not a problem.

Part of the beauty of the current startup landscape is feasibility of throwing a working prototype written by a junior, garbage code and all, into production to see if it gets any traction. It costs little money, offers a chance to hungry juniors to prove themselves and later drives the demand for senior engineers to clean up or rewrite the codebase into something that can scale.