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Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

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Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#51

Post by _pi »

ajross wrote: post #26
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #8

ESR often comes across as unbearably pompous and self-important, but here he strikes a very constructive posture of hard-earned humility and even tough love.

Or alternatively: this was 10 years ago, and the kernel is vastly more complicated now than it was then, running on hardware of a sophistication most of us scarcely imagined. And yet the kernel development model really hasn't changed much. It may be that ESR was especially humble and constructive in that post. But honestly, I'd argue he was also objectively wrong.

I'd argue that Git greatly changed (maybe more so enhanced then changed) the model of the kernel and it seems that Linus did consider ESR's advice ultimately, and maybe that's what drove him to create git.

Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#52

Post by patchwork »

You guys are all talking about the burden and challenge of being gifted, but really, being gifted is awesome. I would much rather be gifted than not be. And if you are truly gifted, and not just talented with a tendency for the grandiose, you can rise above this challenge too, and become wise as well as gifted (after the necessary trials that any worthy endeavor entail, of course). It can happen, despite the happy mythos espoused here by our dear friend ESR. I am skeptical of cursing any specific group of people, unless the point is that every person or "type of person" has a curse that must be borne. If so, being gifted is hardly one of the worst. "Oh noes, I must deal with my constant state of amazingness! How will I cope!"

Others must deal with you though I suppose. That must be rough for them.

Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#53

Post by krakensden »

gfunk911 wrote: post #25
jwecker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and I don't know if he split that driver, but I like to think that Linus took the message to heart (regardless of how he felt about it). The two+ years that followed saw the arrival of a lot of "meta" structure fixes, like bitkeeper (and then git of course), etc. that address many of ESR's concerns.

I love that Linus did what brilliant people do, which is modify the world to better fit how they want to work. I'm sure he modified his own practices somewhat, but he also modified the world by creating Git to enable his preferred workflow.

You're forgetting history- BitKeeper, mostly. The way I heard it told, Larry McVoy sat down and showed it off to Linus, who finally said "ah yes, this is a tool and model that would improve my life."

git didn't come along until Bitkeeper withdrew their support, after a prolonged series of arguments with kernel developers mad about a private company owning the code repository.

I guess I'm saying you should give credit to Larry McVoy for showing the way.

Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#54

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Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#55

Post by ytinas »

_pi wrote: post #51
ajross wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or alternatively: this was 10 years ago, and the kernel is vastly more complicated now than it was then, running on hardware of a sophistication most of us scarcely imagined. And yet the kernel development model really hasn't changed much. It may be that ESR was especially humble and constructive in that post. But honestly, I'd argue he was also objectively wrong.

I'd argue that Git greatly changed (maybe more so enhanced then changed) the model of the kernel and it seems that Linus did consider ESR's advice ultimately, and maybe that's what drove him to create git.

Um... no, it might be what drove him to use bitkeeper. Losing bitkeeper is what drove him to create git. This is pretty well documented.

Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#56

Post by joegaudet »

pavelludiq wrote: post #31

Anybody have good advice for a first year university student who slept through most of high-school, got good grades, and then failed his first calculus exam because he was reading "Practical common lisp", instead of studying? How do i learn to study if i find the subject boring? How do i get disciplined? I know a lot of you have been here, how did you handle it?

Well to be honest... just do the homework. My experience was that profs are lazy, and recycle a lot. So if you do the homework, you will know how to do the exam. It sucks, some of it won't make sense for ages, I honestly didn't understand what the limit definition of a derivative actually meant until 2 years after I got an A in calc.

Some really good advice, hang out with people you know are smarter than you. They will get off on flaunting their intellect, and you'll get taught by some truly brilliant people... everyone wins?

Finally try and have fun. I found a strong positive correlation between having fun and my performance in my undergrad.

Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#57

Post by yardie »

pavelludiq wrote: post #31

Anybody have good advice for a first year university student who slept through most of high-school, got good grades, and then failed his first calculus exam because he was reading "Practical common lisp", instead of studying? How do i learn to study if i find the subject boring? How do i get disciplined? I know a lot of you have been here, how did you handle it?

I was in the same situation. Not reading PCL, but Actionscript. Starting the work is harder than the work itself. The best grades I had were when I wasn't distracted by my PC. My mom was starting her company and needed a PC. I gave her mine and relied on the computer labs. The time restrictions because of lab hours meant I had a real deadline to get work done. I went in knowing I had 2 hours to allocate to one project, 2 hours for another, etc. When the lab closed, I left feeling confident that I did what I needed to do and could get some rest, finally.

Whether they are boring or not doesn't matter. They are all boring at some point.

Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#58

Post by zackattack »

aoriste wrote: post #20
presidentender wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. He'll run across a problem that doesn't just fall down and surrender in the face of his blinding intellect, and at that point, his studying and thinking skills (not the math trivia) will kick in and allow him to slay the beast.

A trivial tangent: oddly enough I find that, whether I'm programming for distributed applications or animations, it is the number theory, and not (surprisingly) the linear algebra, that I am most grateful for having learned. Boutade's Law: do not underestimate the algorithmic utility of knowing your way around the integers.

I would love to hear some of the number theory gems that have been most useful for you.

Re: Eric S. Raymond - The Curse of the Gifted (2000)

#60

Post by lucifer »

patchwork wrote: post #52

You guys are all talking about the burden and challenge of being gifted, but really, being gifted is awesome. I would much rather be gifted than not be. And if you are truly gifted, and not just talented with a tendency for the grandiose, you can rise above this challenge too, and become wise as well as gifted (after the necessary trials that any worthy endeavor entail, of course). It can happen, despite the happy my…

> you can rise above this challenge too, and become wise as well as gifted

That's the essence of what ESR was saying.

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