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Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

wsj.com

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Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#21

Post by ceocoder »

markk wrote: post #15
jonknee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is, she was selling bogus blood tests! Who cares about her feelings when innocent people made actual medical decision based on her junk science? And really what is there to be compassionate about? That she will be less rich?

We know that money is not a great thing to measure to ascertain happiness, so I feel her bank account is irrelevant. And compassion is not a finite resource.

It is really hard to feel happy when you are poor (first hand experience), Money can buy happiness[1][2]. Conversely we do feel much joy when we see someone we envy fail, more so if we feel (rightly or not) that their success was ill deserved[3].

[1] https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WE-AA766B_HAPPY_1... - from page 12 of [2]

[2] http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2013/...

[3] https://blogs.princeton.edu/research/tag/schadenfreude/

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#22

Post by pessimizer »

jonknee wrote: post #17
markk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, and I also don't necessarily approve of her actions. However at a human level, this is simply a human in pain (assuming she is stressed). Bear in mind, she only benefited in cash, we don't know what her experience of her life is like.

I feel much worse for all the people she hurt (investors, employees, patients, partners, etc). I'm sure Kenneth Lay was in pain too, but I didn't feel bad for him either.

Won't someone cry for Bernie Madoff?

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#24

Post by axlprose »

markk wrote: post #15
jonknee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is, she was selling bogus blood tests! Who cares about her feelings when innocent people made actual medical decision based on her junk science? And really what is there to be compassionate about? That she will be less rich?

We know that money is not a great thing to measure to ascertain happiness, so I feel her bank account is irrelevant. And compassion is not a finite resource.

On the one hand, I completely agree with you about having some degree of compassion towards everybody regardless of what they've done, but on the other hand, I'm not exactly sure what it would change, or if I could remotely justify telling people that their feelings are "wrong" despite them being deceived.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to feel anger/resentment/distrust towards somebody that has done them wrong, just as much as it is perfectly reasonable for a person to feel horrible once they start being the center of attention for having done something wrong. The key difference between these two emotional states, is that one side knew what was happening (i.e. the one committing the act of deception), and the other one didn't. That gives the person committing the deception the upper hand in predicting the outcome of the whole situation, because they must know to some extent that getting caught is one of the possible outcomes of their actions; willfully ignoring this reality isn't equivalent to never even knowing it could exist (as would be the case for victims).

Now typically, anger isn't very productive, but neither exactly is total compassion. Pure indifference is the closest thing to a neutral state in such a situation, and from such a vantage point, people getting angry at being deceived and people getting depressed at being caught is completely logical, and admissible as long as there isn't any real destruction or bodily harm going on. I mean, we could feel sad for a shady person feeling sad in addition to all that, but what will that accomplish?

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#25

Post by markk »

ceocoder wrote: post #21
markk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know that money is not a great thing to measure to ascertain happiness, so I feel her bank account is irrelevant. And compassion is not a finite resource.

It is really hard to feel happy when you are poor (first hand experience), Money can buy happiness[1][2]. Conversely we do feel much joy when we see someone we envy fail, more so if we feel (rightly or not) that their success was ill deserved[3]. [1] https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WE-AA766B_HAPPY_1... - from page 12 of [2] [2] http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2013/... [3] https://blo…

Wrt money - I'm just pointing out that assuming someone is happy because they are rich is flawed.

3 is interesting, and backed up by what's happening in this thread. My question is really: is that the world we want to live in? Throughout human history we have gradually been curtailing our violence as a species, and I hope everyone here thinks that's been a good thing, and hopes it will continue. Wishing suffering on anyone for any reason is a form of violence.

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#26

Post by ble »

markk wrote: post #15
jonknee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is, she was selling bogus blood tests! Who cares about her feelings when innocent people made actual medical decision based on her junk science? And really what is there to be compassionate about? That she will be less rich?

We know that money is not a great thing to measure to ascertain happiness, so I feel her bank account is irrelevant. And compassion is not a finite resource.

Huh, under your logic, is there any amount of misconduct that Holmes could commit (which might harm others, including harm through being misled) that would make you feel more compassion for those harmed or potentially harmed?

If you want to apply Buddhist ethics to influential people misusing their power, uh, I guess I follow what you're trying to do, but it seems cray-cray to me.

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#27

Post by kawaiio »

reviseddamage wrote: post #2

I can't imagine the stress that Holmes goes through on a constant basis. There is the usual startup founder stress, but this feels like another level.

yeah, zero sympathy from me since this was someone who was from a privileged elite class who after going at it alone for nearly a decade decided to pull the ol' switcheroo (hype up a broken product, IPO and cash out) except playing with the livelihood of real human users. If this was like some HR product okay the HR people and the company who buy them get hosed but the human cost of people using Theranos and discovering that their trust was violated by lack of scientific rigor reminds me sort of the vaccine scandal happening in China, where expired and crap vaccines were bought and flipped all over China the end user being infants and very pissed off and sad parents.

Holmes is right up there with Skhreli kid in my book if not worse.

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#28

Post by kawaiio »

pessimizer wrote: post #22
jonknee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel much worse for all the people she hurt (investors, employees, patients, partners, etc). I'm sure Kenneth Lay was in pain too, but I didn't feel bad for him either.

Won't someone cry for Bernie Madoff?

Poor Bernie, he must have gone through a tough time witnessing his own offspring commit suicide because of the shame he brought. Poor Bernie, forget tens of thousands of investors who's lives are wrecked because of his deception, he must be going through a really tough time in penitentiary housed along with violent criminals. Yeah, never mind what he did folks, let's focus on the fraudster's emotional pain and try to be accomodating by sending postcards and sell toilet paper with his face on it /s

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#29

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

markk wrote: post #25
ceocoder wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really hard to feel happy when you are poor (first hand experience), Money can buy happiness[1][2]. Conversely we do feel much joy when we see someone we envy fail, more so if we feel (rightly or not) that their success was ill deserved[3]. [1] https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WE-AA766B_HAPPY_1... - from page 12 of [2] [2] http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2013/... [3] https://blo…

Wrt money - I'm just pointing out that assuming someone is happy because they are rich is flawed. 3 is interesting, and backed up by what's happening in this thread. My question is really: is that the world we want to live in? Throughout human history we have gradually been curtailing our violence as a species, and I hope everyone here thinks that's been a good thing, and hopes it will continue. Wishing suffering on…

It's not suffering in some abstract sense, it's accountability - in no small part for causing suffering and loss to others.

Re: Theranos Executive to Depart Amid Regulatory Probes

#30

Post by [deleted] »

markk wrote: post #10
pfarnsworth wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this what one deserves if one tries to peddle something that doesn't work to investors, and then gets hundreds of millions of dollars for it?

This is advocating revenge, and being pleased to see someone suffer. Imagine she had a breakdown due to stress and her life went off the rails - would you feel that was fair? How much would she have to suffer before you are satisfied?

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