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Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

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Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#31

Post by Keyframe »

jdietrich wrote: post #16

Zuse is an interesting example of history being written by the victors. Ask any German who invented the computer and they'll tell you it was Konrad Zuse, but he is almost completely unknown elsewhere. Turing did brilliant work, but Zuse did the job of Turing and Tommy Flowers, working in isolation with very limited resources.

You know, this first springed to my mind. As a kid, I had an old teacher whose father was an official in one of the nazi-backed regimes. There we were, talking about computer history and he was very upset (like really agitated) about this, saying to me that Zuse (Z3, basically) was the first digital computer / inventor. He said it was the case of history being written by the victors. I semi-believed him, considering his personal history, but was something I would hear quite often later in Germany as well.

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#32

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

mh-cx wrote: post #10
jacquesm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charles Babbage is as far as I know the uncontested inventor of the computer, which somehow even German schools teach about.

Was it Turing complete? Because Zuse's Z3 was. I'm not saying though, that this is a criteria for calling any machine a computer. But it's probably what sets Zuse's achievement apart. UPDATE: I've just learned that Babbage's language was also Turing complete. So Zuse's achievement is solely having physically built the first working computer, while Babbage's machine was never realized.

> Because Zuse's Z3 was.

That's debatable. Maybe it was turing complete on the paper but it was never designed to be and it was not used as a turing complete machine.

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#33

Post by whatever_dude »

kuschku wrote: post #5
tiatia wrote: post #3

Konrad Who?

The person who invented the computer. Which somehow no US school teaches about. He also developed a very awesome high-level language very early on.

"Invented the computer" is a strong assertion. I rather like Walter Isaacson's history on "The Innovators", where he talks about the parallel creations of Zuse and other inventors, to show that things are not as black-and-white; that the "inventor of the computer" depends on a murky definition of what a "computer" is, and what the final act of creating it is.

It's more likely that we should attribute the invention of the computer to a collective group of individuals; some that advanced the notion of what a computer should work a little bit, some that advanced a lot, and some that had good ideas that didn't go anywhere at the time.

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#34

Post by a3n »

cmarschner wrote: post #18
jdietrich wrote: post #16

Zuse is an interesting example of history being written by the victors. Ask any German who invented the computer and they'll tell you it was Konrad Zuse, but he is almost completely unknown elsewhere. Turing did brilliant work, but Zuse did the job of Turing and Tommy Flowers, working in isolation with very limited resources.

As can be seen on Wikipedia: [1] vs. [2] - the English version of "computer science" does not mention Zuse. Time to change? Similarly, the German version of "Computer" mentions Zuse 20 times [3]; the English version starts describing the Z2 [4]. Quite fascinating how Wikipedia is written through the local lense. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatik#Entwicklung_moderne... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp…

English and German sources are more likely to be accessible to people working in English and German, respectively, and less in the reverse. And Wikepedia is all about sources. So not surprising, but worth fixing.

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#35

Post by kuschku »

whatever_dude wrote: post #33
kuschku wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person who invented the computer. Which somehow no US school teaches about. He also developed a very awesome high-level language very early on.

"Invented the computer" is a strong assertion. I rather like Walter Isaacson's history on "The Innovators", where he talks about the parallel creations of Zuse and other inventors, to show that things are not as black-and-white; that the "inventor of the computer" depends on a murky definition of what a "computer" is, and what the final act of creating it is. It's more likely that we should attribute the invention of…

Going from "some mechanical devices" to "a fully electric computer with a higher level programming language and full turing capabilities" is quite a leap. That’s the pretty much what "inventing" something means.

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#36

Post by zer00eyz »

The history of computing is filled with so many names, and odd or tangled stories, this is one that I was un-aware of, and is super interesting.

If you like these strange connections you should go and read about the Jacquard loom, that was using punch cards to control the patterns produced! It can be argued that "programmability" came before general purpose computing...

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#37

Post by Arnsaste »

jdietrich wrote: post #16

Zuse is an interesting example of history being written by the victors. Ask any German who invented the computer and they'll tell you it was Konrad Zuse, but he is almost completely unknown elsewhere. Turing did brilliant work, but Zuse did the job of Turing and Tommy Flowers, working in isolation with very limited resources.

I never realized that Zuse is unknown in the US. I am Austrian and I am pretty sure I have learned about Zuse in school. I assume the situation in Germany is similar. Now I am curious what people from other countries were taught. Did you learn anything about Zuse?

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#38

Post by dTal »

elcapitan wrote: post #12
mh-cx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it Turing complete? Because Zuse's Z3 was. I'm not saying though, that this is a criteria for calling any machine a computer. But it's probably what sets Zuse's achievement apart. UPDATE: I've just learned that Babbage's language was also Turing complete. So Zuse's achievement is solely having physically built the first working computer, while Babbage's machine was never realized.

Babbage invented the concept of the programmable computer, Zuse built a programmable electronic computer, which could later be shown to be turing-complete. Those things are pretty subtle, and the 'national' version is always the least subtle, I guess ;) Leonardo da Vinci also invented tanks and helicopters, and then it took a couple of hundred years to build some.

Slight difference - da Vinci's tanks and helicopters wouldn't actually have worked, whereas the Analytical Engine absolutely would have.

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#39

Post by grimoald »

jdietrich wrote: post #16

Zuse is an interesting example of history being written by the victors. Ask any German who invented the computer and they'll tell you it was Konrad Zuse, but he is almost completely unknown elsewhere. Turing did brilliant work, but Zuse did the job of Turing and Tommy Flowers, working in isolation with very limited resources.

As a German, I'm pretty sure most Germans have no idea who invented the computer or think it was someone in America. My parents, and I think the same goes for many others, heard the name of this guy for the first time today, when newspapers and radio programs brought short articles about him. One reason may be that, at least when I was in school, in computer science classes, no history about that field was taught at all.

Re: Konrad Zuse and the digital revolution he started 75 years ago

#40

Post by rhaps0dy »

Arnsaste wrote: post #37
jdietrich wrote: post #16

Zuse is an interesting example of history being written by the victors. Ask any German who invented the computer and they'll tell you it was Konrad Zuse, but he is almost completely unknown elsewhere. Turing did brilliant work, but Zuse did the job of Turing and Tommy Flowers, working in isolation with very limited resources.

I never realized that Zuse is unknown in the US. I am Austrian and I am pretty sure I have learned about Zuse in school. I assume the situation in Germany is similar. Now I am curious what people from other countries were taught. Did you learn anything about Zuse?

Spaniard here. I had no idea about Zuse prior to a few minutes ago.
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