To me this is an example of how transparency through information services is winning. Eventually this will pervade every aspect of government. We are going to be in a much better place when we can see what our government is doing in fine detail; spending, enforcement, funding(think campaigns), voting history, etc. The technology is there now but we haven't quite reached the point where it's all on the table and expected/demanded.
The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
81–90 of 183 posts
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#82Didn't ticket enough. I say, ticket all the cars just for being on the street. We need more public transit.
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#83Sad to see that a majority of these bad tickets are in poorer neighborhoods. It seems most of Manhattan (below the Bronx) is relatively ok.
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm honestly not convinced that's a reasonable expectation. It seems reasonable to me - not being allowed to keep money that isn't yours and that you shouldn't have taken (even by mistake), consider the incentives - writing a huge number of false tickets and then returning the money only to those that are willing to go through the trouble of contesting the ticket.
Eh. Cities issue parking violations all the time when they shouldn't (partially because the rules can be confusing). And, at the same time, many, many people get off with parking violations because they weren't caught. It's hard for me to get excited about a specific group of non-violations because they happened to occur in high incidence spots as uncovered by an examination of public data. I'm not opposed to the cit…
> ...all the time when they shouldn't...
Yup, so maybe some harm reduction (returning money) and negative reinforcement (hassle of returning) can help incentivize an improvement in the quality of parking enforcement service. Individual employees would likely have the same level of interest that you've expressed, but department heads would have a lot more incentive to act (especially if there is any departmental rivalry).
> ...many people get off with parking violations...
Is your point that these people would have deserved a ticket in the past or future - so whatever, or are you talking about some sort of municipal level karma balance where individuals are irrelevant?
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...
I am afraid it would cost $2M to try to pay back $1.7M... i think they should first spend their time and $$ in making sure they fix the issues going forward.
> I am afraid it would cost $2M to try to pay back $1.7M
How much did it cost them to issue tickets and collect that $1.7 million? Do they use the same logic while issuing tickets and collecting fines?
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#86In Russian big cities commercial car evacuation for misparked often bribes policeman to cover their activity. But resistance is futile and there is helping app against that http://peapp.ru.
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#87It seems that there are multiple failures here. 1. Designated approved cutouts should be an easier process to obtain (just try getting a stop sign/crosswalk approved in the city and you'll understand the black hole that is the DOT approval process) 2. Over eager officers issuing tickets. Pedestrian cutouts are there for a real purpose, namely accessibility for people with disabilities and wheelchairs. While it sucks…
How does the city designate cutouts that are not approved for parking for disabled access, etc.? I noticed in the article that: "(Yellow paint has no meaning in NYC traffic enforcement, and the spot has no crosswalk)"
The traffic rule book only states (§4-01):
Crosswalk. (i) Marked crosswalk. That part of a roadway defined by two parallel lines or highlighted by a pattern of lines (perpendicular, parallel or diagonal used either separately or in combination) that is intended to guide pedestrians into proper crossing paths. (ii) Unmarked crosswalk. That part of a roadway, other than a marked crosswalk, which is included within the extensions of the sidewalk lines between opposite sides of the roadway at an intersection, provided that (A) the roadway crosses through the intersection rather than ending at the intersection, and/or (B) all traffic on the opposing roadway is controlled by a traffic control device.*
Basically it is approved if there are two parallel lines (marked crosswalk) or no parallel lines (unmarked crosswalk) and is NOT a T-intersection or if there is a traffic control device.
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...
But traffic tickets are just a game. The rules change, folks use the old rules sometimes mistakenly, should we go back and change the score? Also these are folks who didn't challenge it the first time around - are they going to get up in arms now? I'm guessing not.
Traffic tickets are not "just a game" and if you believe that then I challenge you to drive in a place where they aren't issued.
Laws change because we learn from experience and over time situations change.
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…
And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...
I think a better analogy would be income taxes. If I make a mistake that causes the government to give me more money than I'm due they take it back whether I want to give it back or not. It should be the same when the government makes a mistake that causes me to give it more money than it's due.
Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It
#90It seems that there are multiple failures here. 1. Designated approved cutouts should be an easier process to obtain (just try getting a stop sign/crosswalk approved in the city and you'll understand the black hole that is the DOT approval process) 2. Over eager officers issuing tickets. Pedestrian cutouts are there for a real purpose, namely accessibility for people with disabilities and wheelchairs. While it sucks…
Cutouts enable wheelchair users to cross the edge of the sidewalk just as walking people do. Does the fact that there is a crosswalk with a step imply that a car cannot park there? Clearly no, otherwise there would be no parking stops at all. Then neither should a cutout.