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The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

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Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#61

Post by fsaneq2 »

refurb wrote: post #56
fsaneq2 wrote: post #8

We need this in SF. SFMTA ticketed my car for no reason before; I tried their "appeal" process, only to get a response that sounded like they didn't even read what I said.

Huh. I appealed a parking ticket in SF one time and it was dismissed. I got a street cleaning ticket that said I parked on a Tuesday but the address on the ticket was on the Thursday street cleaning side. Just pointed that out in a letter and everything was dropped. However, my scenario is pretty straightforward. I'm guessing anything more complex is going to get denied. You can always appear in front of a judge.

Yeah, back when I got the ticket I was really angry (can you tell from my comments on this topic? :P) and considered doing this.

The problem is that regardless of how angry petty bullshit injustices like this make me, it is simply not worth my time to go fight a parking ticket (it was like $100 or something) in person. Same thing for hiring a lawyer -- it's cheaper to just pay. Plus, I imagine they have the final word anyway and I'm quite disillusioned with the fairness of their whole "trial" thing.

I suspect this is the case for many/most people who get these tickets, and probably a large part of the reason that they can get away with it. It's disgusting but true, and besides someone exposing the scam with data like this, I'm not sure what else I could've done.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#62

Post by wyldfire »

mynameisnoone wrote: post #26

NYPD ticketed Casey Neistat for not riding in the bike lane, a viral video put an end to it. ;) http://youtu.be/bzE-IMaegzQ

While I think that's a good thing, this is different from that in an interesting way. In this case, the government opted-in to releasing data to the public. And beyond that they accepted the "government bug report" from a citizen data analyst and (1) issued a correction and (2) vowed to monitor this data item going forward.

A viral video is IMO not very different from having the local news media shame the government into taking the right action. While these videos have helped us reign in the systematic racism and violence of the police here in the US, it's fantastic to see the government acting in such a responsible and effective manner.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#63

Post by thevibesman »

In 2011, I was given two parking tickets when legally parked in Boston.

The first ticket was issued for parking in resident street parking without a permit. I was actually parked just after the sign delimiting the resident parking area[1]. I photographed where I was parked and sent in an appeal which was accepted.

A month later, I was parked in the same non-resident street parking and I was issued a ticket for failing to pay a parking meter; the number of the meter I supposedly failed to pay was a LONG block and a half away from where I was parked. Again, I submitted an appeal, but this time it was not accepted.

The friend I was visiting when I received these tickets was a producer for a local television news station. She told the story of these two tickets to their investigative reporter who was interested in the story and was going to inquire about it with the Boston PD. Apparently she didn't get anywhere with the story, but Boston PD did stop sending me failure to pay notifications for the fine.

[1]: This non-resident street parking was not metered.

(EDIT: Foot-note formatting)

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#64

Post by lotharbot »

gshulegaard wrote: post #13
parennoob wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they thanked him means exactly zero if they don't give back the money that they got from people who were lawfully parked, but still got erroneously fined by the department for reasons that directly contradict existing law . It is easy to give verbal apologies (especially using hedging words like “....recent, abstruse change in the parking rules.” If the police are so confused by abstruse changes in the…

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

My dad went through something similar, though on a smaller scale. His van had a folding wheelchair lift on the back, which would block the view of the license plate from a distance but not from up close. Based on current law, this was perfectly legal, but some police officers had been trained otherwise in the past and hadn't received updated training like traffic agents had. Eventually, after he successfully contested a few tickets, the police department used a picture of his van in their training manuals -- and he put that picture in his back window, with a label for what page of the manual it was in, and stopped getting tickets.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#65

Post by ghaff »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #59

That's a shame. Parking in front of a handicapped-access ramp is a shitty thing to do even if it is legal.

It's either legal to park in a spot or not legal to park in a spot. It doesn't work and certainly doesn't scale to have spots where "maybe I shouldn't park there because I might get in someone's way even though it's a legal spot."

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#67

Post by ghaff »

woodman wrote: post #41
ghaff wrote: post #19

As the article explained, tickets had been voided when cases were disputed as widely happens in just about every city. Honestly, if I were a public official reading the comments here, I'd be inclined to just go "Why do I even bother? I explained how, even though the people who hand out most of the parking tickets were educated about the change, many police officers weren't. We'll fix it now." Sure, rerun the analysis…

> I'm honestly not convinced that's a reasonable expectation. It seems reasonable to me - not being allowed to keep money that isn't yours and that you shouldn't have taken (even by mistake), consider the incentives - writing a huge number of false tickets and then returning the money only to those that are willing to go through the trouble of contesting the ticket.

Eh. Cities issue parking violations all the time when they shouldn't (partially because the rules can be confusing). And, at the same time, many, many people get off with parking violations because they weren't caught. It's hard for me to get excited about a specific group of non-violations because they happened to occur in high incidence spots as uncovered by an examination of public data.

I'm not opposed to the city making a modest effort to refund money to this subset of individuals. Though if it does so I expect it will be purely because they see it as a good PR play.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#68

Post by themartorana »

msandford wrote: post #53
Aloha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd likely cost more to refund the money than the value of it - and honestly, if you got a parking ticket in error, its up to you to contest it - its not like the tickets were written in bad faith.

> its not like the tickets were written in bad faith. There's been a huge proliferation of laws in the last ~20 years or so which are categorized as Strict Liability. Taxes have always been like this, but lately a lot of new laws have said "follow this or else" full stop. Since normal everyday citizens are being held to strict liability every day, I see no reason to be so forgiving of officers. I'm not suggesting tha…

Can't up vote this enough."Ignorance of the law is not an excuse" is played out on the citizens of NYC (and elsewhere) on the daily. Don't let authority off so easy. Hold those that would hold you liable, liable.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#69

Post by Aloha »

msandford wrote: post #53
Aloha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd likely cost more to refund the money than the value of it - and honestly, if you got a parking ticket in error, its up to you to contest it - its not like the tickets were written in bad faith.

> its not like the tickets were written in bad faith. There's been a huge proliferation of laws in the last ~20 years or so which are categorized as Strict Liability. Taxes have always been like this, but lately a lot of new laws have said "follow this or else" full stop. Since normal everyday citizens are being held to strict liability every day, I see no reason to be so forgiving of officers. I'm not suggesting tha…

The solution is to change the laws not "an eye for an eye.."

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#70

Post by esbranson »

ssalazar wrote: post #43
gohrt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you memorized the entirety of the law? http://www.amlegal.com/codes/client/new-york-city_ny/ In a city where disagreeing with law enforcement's wrong or illegal activity risks violent reaction or death, it is not solely the citizen's obligation to correct law enforcement's mistakes. Law enforcement tax the citizens to pay professionals to enforce laws. Those professionals have a duty to do their job properly.

> In a city where disagreeing with law enforcement's wrong or illegal activity risks violent reaction or death People challenge infractions in court all the time. Theyre not in much danger. There is a process for this that involves courts and sometimes a lawyer. You're conflating the judicial system with street interactions with the police, where contesting the NYPD is indeed a risky proposition.

> People challenge infractions in court all the time.

In New York City, most infractions are not challengeable in court. Unless you consider the city Finance Department a court or consider its commissioner a judge.

New York has only one, unified judiciary. The mayor and his commissioners are not part of it. The mayor and his commissioners are not judges.

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