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The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

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Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#51

Post by guelo »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #5
guelo wrote: post #2

I don't think that's what "systematically" means.

I do? When you're collecting two million dollars a year from ticketing legally parked cars, at less than $200 per ticket, you're not making a minor one-time error. That's a systematic practice (or, depending on your point of view, a minor one-time error that happened to be repeated 10,000 times every year).

The rules of the system had changed and part of the system was unaware of the change. The system was not working as a whole to intentionally ticket legally parked vehicles. It was not systematic. And it's a clickbaity title. My comment is getting downvoted to oblivion because people don't know the definition of the word.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#52

Post by corndoge »

jrockway wrote: post #12

Why risk parking in a questionable area like a ramp cutout when some streets have an entire extra parking lane (indicated by a picture of a bicycle)?

All these downvotes, apparently nobody can appreciate a bit of satire :P

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#53

Post by msandford »

Aloha wrote: post #49
rsp1984 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...

I'd likely cost more to refund the money than the value of it - and honestly, if you got a parking ticket in error, its up to you to contest it - its not like the tickets were written in bad faith.

> its not like the tickets were written in bad faith.

There's been a huge proliferation of laws in the last ~20 years or so which are categorized as Strict Liability. Taxes have always been like this, but lately a lot of new laws have said "follow this or else" full stop.

Since normal everyday citizens are being held to strict liability every day, I see no reason to be so forgiving of officers. I'm not suggesting that they're bad people, or deserve to go to jail for making an honest mistake. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander and if normal folks are being punished this way, so should law enforcement, politicians, etc. Nobody should be exempt, the law is the law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability_(criminal)

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#54

Post by LanceH »

eggy wrote: post #39
parennoob wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope I'm not trivializing the value of your work. You have done the general public a great service by finding these erroneous citations. Thank you for that! All I was saying is that there is a strong moral case for people who were wrongly fined in this manner to receive refunds on their fines, and I think the city agency should do that (but almost certainly won't).

I think it is a very positive thing that the OP accomplished. And yes, I think the city should pay back for the wrongly issued parking tickets. The official admits there was an error and defines why it happened. This in itself opens the door for the wrongly ticketed parties to claim a refund, since their is the admission by the city official. Now, who's going to inform those wrongly-ticketed citizens? Certainly not t…

I don't know about the specifics, but they should get the administrative "fees" back, which are typically claimed even when someone is not guilty.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#55

Post by esbranson »

jasonjei wrote: post #4

Did NYPD refund fines from erroneously paid citations?

Are you asking if the NYPD issued warrants (wrote checks) against the city treasury to people who were either implicitly or explicitly found guilty?

Or do you not realize that if someone doesn't contest a ticket, they are implicitly acknowledging their guilt?

Or do you think the NYPD can just start giving out city money as they see fit? Note: guilt is decided by the NYC Parking Violations Bureau, within the NYC Finance Department, not by the NYC Police Department.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#56

Post by refurb »

fsaneq2 wrote: post #8

We need this in SF. SFMTA ticketed my car for no reason before; I tried their "appeal" process, only to get a response that sounded like they didn't even read what I said.

Huh. I appealed a parking ticket in SF one time and it was dismissed. I got a street cleaning ticket that said I parked on a Tuesday but the address on the ticket was on the Thursday street cleaning side. Just pointed that out in a letter and everything was dropped.

However, my scenario is pretty straightforward. I'm guessing anything more complex is going to get denied. You can always appear in front of a judge.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#57

Post by Spooky23 »

gohrt wrote: post #27
gshulegaard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

Have you memorized the entirety of the law? http://www.amlegal.com/codes/client/new-york-city_ny/ In a city where disagreeing with law enforcement's wrong or illegal activity risks violent reaction or death, it is not solely the citizen's obligation to correct law enforcement's mistakes. Law enforcement tax the citizens to pay professionals to enforce laws. Those professionals have a duty to do their job properly.

That's a ridiculous statement.

Like any other bureaucracy, if you get a ticket or citation, you're free to contest it. This wasn't a systematic abuse of power -- it was a bureaucratic oversight.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#58

Post by bpchaps »

I've been working on something like this for over a year now for Chicago. Most of that time's been spent just simply doing data cleanups.

My most recent update from Monday: https://plot.ly/~red-bin/6.embed

Pretty fucking proud of that, not gonna lie.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#60

Post by esbranson »

refurb wrote: post #56
fsaneq2 wrote: post #8

We need this in SF. SFMTA ticketed my car for no reason before; I tried their "appeal" process, only to get a response that sounded like they didn't even read what I said.

Huh. I appealed a parking ticket in SF one time and it was dismissed. I got a street cleaning ticket that said I parked on a Tuesday but the address on the ticket was on the Thursday street cleaning side. Just pointed that out in a letter and everything was dropped. However, my scenario is pretty straightforward. I'm guessing anything more complex is going to get denied. You can always appear in front of a judge.

No you can almost never appear in front of a judge. Random people from around town (who may not even be lawyers) that adjudicate administrative (extrajudicial) trials are not judges.

That makes more sense when you realize that final appeals from these adjudicators' decisions go to the director of the agency.

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