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The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

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Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#41
post #19

As the article explained, tickets had been voided when cases were disputed as widely happens in just about every city. Honestly, if I were a public official reading the comments here, I'd be inclined to just go "Why do I even bother? I explained how, even though the people who hand out most of the parking tickets were educated about the change, many police officers weren't. We'll fix it now." Sure, rerun the analysis…

> I'm honestly not convinced that's a reasonable expectation.

It seems reasonable to me - not being allowed to keep money that isn't yours and that you shouldn't have taken (even by mistake), consider the incentives - writing a huge number of false tickets and then returning the money only to those that are willing to go through the trouble of contesting the ticket.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#42
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...

But can you prove the money was innocent and lawfully acquired?

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#43
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

Have you memorized the entirety of the law? http://www.amlegal.com/codes/client/new-york-city_ny/ In a city where disagreeing with law enforcement's wrong or illegal activity risks violent reaction or death, it is not solely the citizen's obligation to correct law enforcement's mistakes. Law enforcement tax the citizens to pay professionals to enforce laws. Those professionals have a duty to do their job properly.

> In a city where disagreeing with law enforcement's wrong or illegal activity risks violent reaction or death

People challenge infractions in court all the time. Theyre not in much danger. There is a process for this that involves courts and sometimes a lawyer.

You're conflating the judicial system with street interactions with the police, where contesting the NYPD is indeed a risky proposition.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#44
It seems that there are multiple failures here. 1. Designated approved cutouts should be an easier process to obtain (just try getting a stop sign/crosswalk approved in the city and you'll understand the black hole that is the DOT approval process) 2. Over eager officers issuing tickets.

Pedestrian cutouts are there for a real purpose, namely accessibility for people with disabilities and wheelchairs. While it sucks for cars to get ticketed, I for one share no compassion with those people blocking cutouts in general, because they are not offering courtesy for those people who require these cutouts to live.

Edit: For those suggesting that the crosswalks in the middle of the block go "nowhere" consider the following. a wheelchair user parks his/her car and exits the car. he/she will have to cross all the way to the ends of the block in order to get out of the street into safety. even it may seem like it's going nowhere, there is a real functional purpose.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#45
After recently dealing with the various governments / nationalised businesses from a number of countries I can safely say that I am well and truly fed up with their inane bureaucracy.

This article doesn't surprise me: where the recent swath of internet companies seem to extoll individual agency/ownership, nationalised companies seem to preach the exact opposite - a problem is never the individual's responsibility and people seem perfectly happy to ship a borken status quo. As such, ludicrous oversights like this are a regular occurrence rather than a gross intolerable negligence.

This is not even yet mentioning how awful the UX is for the customer who has to interface with these institutions.

While it may be very easy to discard my point as rife with cliches, it's worth noting that we have become very spoilt by ruthlessly frictionless (yet equally effective) customer-facing tech products. The opportunities to streamline processes and save time and money for state-owned interfaces (both online and offline). As an example, I recently had to queue in a hospital with my sick mother for an hour, to be told that that individual couldn't process our particular issue and that we would have to join the back of the adjacent queue (not there was zero signposting whatsoever). This is one example and not a criticism on healthcare, but what happened to service-driven processes?

Instead we, the public, have to live with the dire reality of inefficient (and increasinly apparently indifferent) government services as the gap between private and state run services continues to expand as we grow increasingly disenfranchised.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They admit wrongdoing in the quote.

But there is nothing in the story stating NYC is returning the effectively stolen, as per their admission to wrongdoing, money.

It's not stolen, that implies an intent to do wrong. Per the NYPD's response (and given their candor, I find no reason to believe otherwise) it's clear this was a training issue and the officers writing the tickets were doing their duty to the best of their knowledge at the time.

And having said that, yes I believe the money should be returned, and probably will.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#47
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...

Wow I can't believe all the people disagreeing with you.

They unlawfully issued tickets, were made aware that they were unlawful, and don't want to refund the money ???

I must be taking crazy pills for people to think this is ok.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#48

It seems that there are multiple failures here. 1. Designated approved cutouts should be an easier process to obtain (just try getting a stop sign/crosswalk approved in the city and you'll understand the black hole that is the DOT approval process) 2. Over eager officers issuing tickets. Pedestrian cutouts are there for a real purpose, namely accessibility for people with disabilities and wheelchairs. While it sucks…

> the black hole that is the DOT approval process

Once one reads a number of successful and unsuccessful applications and their interpretation and implementation (including the substantive laws/rules, procedural laws/rules, and administrative court precedents), I think the DOT approval process would be rather clear. These processes are usually extremely verbose and pedantic for this reason. Once again I think lack of access to the law (e.g., lack of access to court decisions ala PACER) is a fundamental contributing cause underlying your claim.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...

I'd likely cost more to refund the money than the value of it - and honestly, if you got a parking ticket in error, its up to you to contest it - its not like the tickets were written in bad faith.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#50

It seems that there are multiple failures here. 1. Designated approved cutouts should be an easier process to obtain (just try getting a stop sign/crosswalk approved in the city and you'll understand the black hole that is the DOT approval process) 2. Over eager officers issuing tickets. Pedestrian cutouts are there for a real purpose, namely accessibility for people with disabilities and wheelchairs. While it sucks…

How does the city designate cutouts that are not approved for parking for disabled access, etc.? I noticed in the article that: "(Yellow paint has no meaning in NYC traffic enforcement, and the spot has no crosswalk)"
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