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The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

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Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#31

Post by mynameisnoone »

twinkletwinkle wrote: post #20
fsaneq2 wrote: post #8

We need this in SF. SFMTA ticketed my car for no reason before; I tried their "appeal" process, only to get a response that sounded like they didn't even read what I said.

I once received a parking ticket timestamped 2 in the afternoon. Funny thing is, that day I drove across the GG Bridge and went hiking - I had photographic evidence of crossing the bridge in the morning and the toll to prove I returned in the evening. Therefore I and my car were not in the city at 2 pm and could not have parked illegally. Appeal denied.

Drivers should consider adding a GPS+time logging system, in addition to front/back video DVRs.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#32

Post by thaumasiotes »

gshulegaard wrote: post #13
parennoob wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they thanked him means exactly zero if they don't give back the money that they got from people who were lawfully parked, but still got erroneously fined by the department for reasons that directly contradict existing law . It is easy to give verbal apologies (especially using hedging words like “....recent, abstruse change in the parking rules.” If the police are so confused by abstruse changes in the…

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

> there is also something to be said about the fact citizens should be aware of their own rights and laws. Any citizen could and should have contested wrongly issued tickets.

As gohrt points out, this cannot be done. Being aware of the laws that apply to you in the US is far beyond any human capacity.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#33

Post by JBReefer »

jrockway wrote: post #12

Why risk parking in a questionable area like a ramp cutout when some streets have an entire extra parking lane (indicated by a picture of a bicycle)?

You do realize this isn't productive? Please don't park in the bike lane, I need that.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#34

Post by rsp1984 »

gshulegaard wrote: post #13
parennoob wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they thanked him means exactly zero if they don't give back the money that they got from people who were lawfully parked, but still got erroneously fined by the department for reasons that directly contradict existing law . It is easy to give verbal apologies (especially using hedging words like “....recent, abstruse change in the parking rules.” If the police are so confused by abstruse changes in the…

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

And I respectfully disagree with you.

Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#35

Post by rhizome »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #30
gohrt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you memorized the entirety of the law? http://www.amlegal.com/codes/client/new-york-city_ny/ In a city where disagreeing with law enforcement's wrong or illegal activity risks violent reaction or death, it is not solely the citizen's obligation to correct law enforcement's mistakes. Law enforcement tax the citizens to pay professionals to enforce laws. Those professionals have a duty to do their job properly.

I've always thought it was odd that ignorance of the law is no excuse for civilians breaking it, but is an excuse for police breaking it.

Heien vs. North Carolina

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#36

Post by greglindahl »

gohrt wrote: post #27
gshulegaard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

Have you memorized the entirety of the law? http://www.amlegal.com/codes/client/new-york-city_ny/ In a city where disagreeing with law enforcement's wrong or illegal activity risks violent reaction or death, it is not solely the citizen's obligation to correct law enforcement's mistakes. Law enforcement tax the citizens to pay professionals to enforce laws. Those professionals have a duty to do their job properly.

Did the person you're responding to delete the word "solely" from their comment?

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#37

Post by klean92 »

rsp1984 wrote: post #34
gshulegaard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...

I am afraid it would cost $2M to try to pay back $1.7M... i think they should first spend their time and $$ in making sure they fix the issues going forward.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#38

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rsp1984 wrote: post #34
gshulegaard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. An error was identified, communicated, and acted upon as a result of open data. Specifically, it became known that due to inadequate training practices patrol officers were unawares of the change whereas parking enforcement were the only ones trained and therefore were not making the same mistake: > "When the rule changed in 2009 to allow for certain pedestrian ramps to be blocked by parked v…

And I respectfully disagree with you. Money has been taken from citizens by the authorities in an unlawful manner. Money has to be given back. I don't know what more to say about this matter. If I steal 200$ out of your pocket and you find out, my feeling is you would want your money back, not an apology and my heartfelt assurance that it won't happen again...

But traffic tickets are just a game. The rules change, folks use the old rules sometimes mistakenly, should we go back and change the score? Also these are folks who didn't challenge it the first time around - are they going to get up in arms now? I'm guessing not.

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#39

Post by eggy »

parennoob wrote: post #21
iquantny wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP Here. This is an amazing response from a city agency. In the end of the day, agencies rarely interact directly with citizens. The normal response to someone analyzing your data is to close up and have no comment. The fact that they admit the mistake is huge, and big step forward for Open Data and agency interaction.

I hope I'm not trivializing the value of your work. You have done the general public a great service by finding these erroneous citations. Thank you for that! All I was saying is that there is a strong moral case for people who were wrongly fined in this manner to receive refunds on their fines, and I think the city agency should do that (but almost certainly won't).

I think it is a very positive thing that the OP accomplished. And yes, I think the city should pay back for the wrongly issued parking tickets.

The official admits there was an error and defines why it happened. This in itself opens the door for the wrongly ticketed parties to claim a refund, since their is the admission by the city official.

Now, who's going to inform those wrongly-ticketed citizens? Certainly not the city. It will cost more for them to re-analyze, and contact all of those people. They should, but it will not happen.

Great work by the OP! Glad to see NYPD in a positive light.

Slightly OT: I was born and raised in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, and I remember people used to double-park, or do whatever they pleased, and rack up hundreds of dollars (thousands today) in parking tickets, and then bargain the total fine down to a fraction of the fines. It was cheaper than legally paying monthly parking rates!

Re: The NYPD Was Ticketing Legally Parked Cars; Open Data Put an End to It

#40

Post by [deleted] »

parennoob wrote: post #7
danso wrote: post #3

For people who skip straight to the comments: I couldn't fit it into the title, but the other half of the OP's title is that the author confronted the NYPD with his data analysis and they thanked him and spoke positively about the effect of open data: > “Mr. Wellington’s analysis identified errors the department made in issuing parking summonses. It appears to be a misunderstanding by officers on patrol of a recent,…

The fact that they thanked him means exactly zero if they don't give back the money that they got from people who were lawfully parked, but still got erroneously fined by the department for reasons that directly contradict existing law . It is easy to give verbal apologies (especially using hedging words like “....recent, abstruse change in the parking rules.” If the police are so confused by abstruse changes in the…

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