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Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#101

Post by laxatives »

mmanfrin wrote: post #90
laxatives wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire recruiter economy is an enormous conflict of interest. They are like realtors. They are paid by commission and make significantly more money based on quantity of hires, rather than quality. So they have no real incentive to fight for you or help with your negotiations and a strong incentive to be mildly dishonest or exaggerate without burning bridges. This is terrible for both you and your employer (but mo…

I also feel that the recruiting industry leeches off of developers -- if companies are paying recruiting firms $30k per developer (with some companies I've seen having about a 1year turnover rate), then that's 30k that is essentially coming out of my salary.

Agreed. I'd happily take 20k of that and do the negotiation myself. Win-win, right?

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#102

Post by garysieling »

joezydeco wrote: post #27
ChuckMcM wrote: post #12

One of the actual uses for LinkedIn. Generally you probably want to work for people you like and respect. If you know some people like that, then finding out how to reach them on LinkedIn is a good way to let them know you are interested in working with them. Sometimes they won't be interested in working with you, its a fact of life and you have to let that go. Sometimes they are open to the idea but they don't have…

I've left my LinkedIn profile open for this very reason. It's also given me another axis on the graph. I'll routinely get email from a recruiter about a position, which I'll ignore because I'm either happy where I am, the job isn't a total fit, or you see the typical signals that their comp is out of whack. Then, a week or two later, I'll get another email about the same job from a different recruiter. Now I know the…

Or the recruiters found a public listing and are trying to insert themselves in the process. Periodically I get emails from recruiters that are "I have a great candidate for your open position..."

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#103

Post by garysieling »

peteretep wrote: post #28
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

A counterpoint to that is that if a company is hiring a recruiter they are serious about hiring somebody. There are some places where they bring in a huge number of candidates, interview them, and then never hire anyone. For instance, at a local Uni, they had a position open for 2.5 yrs. If there is a recruiter involved there is a sense of urgency at least.

> is that if a company is hiring a recruiter they are > serious about hiring somebody Perhaps. It doesn't cost a company anything to engage a recruiter if they don't place any of the candidates.

That is true, but it does mean there is an interested contact at the company. Compare to places like Indeed that scrape listings and have no way to tell if a position has been filled.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#104

Post by squeekwull »

I'll throw in my recent experience:

Rewind 2 years, looking for a more-legit DB dev job, coming out of a hybrid client-facing analytical role, with somewhat light dev work.

Resume is up in all the usual spots (Indeed, Dice, etc) get a call from a Tech recruiter asking if I was interested in a position paying nearly 2x what I was making. Jumped on it, and less than 24 hours later I was hired. I've come to see now that that was a HUGE red flag. The interviews were non-technical, among many other things.

Fast forward to this last month, workplace is horriffic, no process, no management, all the worst things. But I do have 2 more years exp in DB dev, so it's time to start looking again.

Put resume back up on the usual sites, this time I also put it up on a smaller, more focused site here in CO: builtincolorado.com which is aimed at start-up and post-start-up IT jobs.

Had a few interviews through companies I found there. Tons of calls/emails from recruiters, nothing catches my eye. Found a company thru BiC, and they go through a recruiter for a lot of their tech screening.

This recruiter is completely different than the previous one. Actual assessment testing, recruiters who've working in the field for years. Process took about 5-6 weeks.

So all in all, recruiters aren't always bad, but many are. And like some have pointed out, many have conflicts of interest in trying to just fill positions. The company I was hired by only uses them for tech screening, and doesn't to CTH, which I think helps lessen the conflict of interest, and only uses this recruiting company because they bring quality candidates. The moment they cease providing that, I don't doubt they'd use another screener or do it all themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#105

Post by lj3 »

doeshelooklikea wrote: post #88
laxatives wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire recruiter economy is an enormous conflict of interest. They are like realtors. They are paid by commission and make significantly more money based on quantity of hires, rather than quality. So they have no real incentive to fight for you or help with your negotiations and a strong incentive to be mildly dishonest or exaggerate without burning bridges. This is terrible for both you and your employer (but mo…

I have to disagree with you a bit on this one. Don't get me wrong, most recruiters are worthless and add little to no value. Recruiting firms have guarantee clauses in their client agreements - meaning if a placed candidate ceases to be employed (referred to as a 'fall off' in the industry) for any reasons in a specific time period (typically 3 months) the recruiter must conduct the search again at no additional cost…

It's a distinction without a difference. The likelihood of a candidate "fall off" is low because companies tend to be extra aggressive in vetting candidates that apply through recruiting agencies.

My personal experience with applying through recruiters is it puts you at a disadvantage right from the get go. Most hiring managers believe applicants that come through recruiters are more likely than not to be of low quality, so right off the bat their first impression is suspicion and skepticism. On top of that, if they hire the candidate they have to pay the recruiter a percentage on top of what they pay the new hire. If you're not exceptional in every way they could possibly imagine, you're not getting the job.

Of course, there are exceptions. If a company has worked with an exceptional recruiter in the past and trusts him or her, then things are different. I have yet to meet even one recruiter that fits that description, though.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#106

Post by deal1990 »

Jemaclus wrote: post #16

I despise recruiters with the fiery passion of a thousand suns, so I try to avoid them as much as possible. That leaves me (and you) with a few viable options: 1) Use a matching service like interviewing.io or TripleByte to get connected directly with companies. (Effectiveness: Questionable but promising) 2) Use a job listing site like Indeed.com to find positions that you're interested in applying to. (Effectiveness…

Interviewing.io is a phenomenal platform, for whose effectiveness I can personally attest. While cold emailing and general networking have their merits, interviewing.io was a very nice surprise in the sheer number of technical screens/onsites I was able to attain within a few weeks on the platform.

The main draw, in my opinion, is that they routinely host interviewers from top-tier companies to perform anonymous technical screens. After which, if you perform well, can expedite you to late-stage interviewing with those same companies. For those with non-traditional backgrounds like myself, interviewing.io gives you a helping hand in bypassing unwarranted resume and recruiter bias. This is especially true if you're competent, as interviewing.io will help shine light on your abilities.

The platform also has routine practice sessions each week to expose you to real interviewers and sharpen your interviewing wits.

I realize I may very well sound like a zealot, but interviewing.io is a must-have in your interviewing arsenal. I understand it is relatively new to the scene, but it's free and at the very least gives you the ability to practice interviewing. For the company rounds, you will definitely be able to start dialogues with some pretty interesting/reputable companies that would have otherwise rejected your application in the ever-present fear of false-positives.

Hope this helps.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#107

Post by jchendy »

DanBC wrote: post #65
rebelde wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tell them your real salary? I always gave them a number that was closer to my target range.

That's potentially fraud.

I don't know about fraud, but if it comes up in the background check, they could definitely rescind your offer.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#108

Post by DanBC »

15155 wrote: post #73
DanBC wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's potentially fraud.

In what way? Who is harmed? In which jurisdiction?

The recruitee is deceiving someone to gain financial advantage, which is pretty much the definition of fraud.

If the potential recruitee said "I'm looking for $X" they're not deceiving anyone.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#109

Post by DanBC »

artmageddon wrote: post #93
jeff_tyrrill wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your salary involves two parties, and you are only one of them. The other party is your employer. By stating an untrue salary, you're fraudulently claiming that your current or previous employer (usually known to your negotiating counterparty) agreed to pay you the stated amount. It's somewhat like lying about a credential.

Why is the business of the new employer to know how much I was making at my previous position? If they would agree to pay me for my skillset alone, that'd be one thing, but otherwise they'll simply use the information from my previous position to give me a de facto raise. Two can play at that game. Also, I could be wrong but I don't think a new employer will contact a previous employer to specifically learn how much…

If it's not their business you should just not tell them, but instead tell them what you're looking for.

But don't lie to them, especially if they're going to pay you more because of that lie.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#110

Post by k__ »

vladgur wrote: post #14
k__ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

other reasons for hiring a recruiter: desperation, laziness, no idea about hiring at all

I beg to differ. Hiring is hard. Internal recruiters play an important role in helping your company grow. For technical recruiting, recruiters are essential if you want to grow your eng team beyond single digits unless youre prepare to have one or more engineers devote their full time to fielding applications and screening candidates.

Yes, this may be...

I'm not a fan of teams beyond single digits so I don't see the value of recruiters.

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