Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

news.ycombinator.com

31–40 of 149 posts

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#31

Hi, I'm a recruiter. Look for job aggregators like Adzuna, Indeed, etc, which scrape all jobs on the web. When you see results, it should be easy to work out which jobs are posted by recruiters, and which have been posted directly by the company. In my (massively biased) experience, you are better off applying for a position when you've been put forward by a recruiter: * The recruiter knows what the client's salary r…

> wants you to get paid as much as possible (as the role is commission based) I think recruiters can be great, but don't put too much stock into this point. Recruiters are similar to realtors- yes, they get more if you get more, but they would rather close the deal then to risk no deal at all over a few more thousand dollars.

Sure but they're also aware that the whole deal can disappear if you get a good counter-offer or a better offer elsewhere.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#32

Hi, I'm a recruiter. Look for job aggregators like Adzuna, Indeed, etc, which scrape all jobs on the web. When you see results, it should be easy to work out which jobs are posted by recruiters, and which have been posted directly by the company. In my (massively biased) experience, you are better off applying for a position when you've been put forward by a recruiter: * The recruiter knows what the client's salary r…

I have to respectfully disagree. While this may be true for top recruiters, the SNR is very low in this field - a large majority of recruited are not helpful. Specifically I'm speaking on the hiring side of two companies. In one, we had decided to work with one recruiter who we had a good relationship with and they knew our salary requirements, needs etc. However, on a weekly basis we would get 10-12 unsolicited emails from recruiters who we didn't want to work with introducing candidates.

So from a candidates pov, it's very hard to see if the recruiter even has a relationship with the companies they are passing to. If you have a way to ascertain a good recruiter from a bad (maybe through personal recommendations) then sure go ahead. But I don't think it's useful to use cold call emails.

As another datapoint, I've had several friends go through the job hunt where we each applied to 20+ companies. All of us independently stopped using recruiters when we saw that it was more efficient to work directly with companies.

This is my experience as a junior dev. Ymmv with other roles but I find that the SNR is too low to get any benefit from recruiters.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#33
In the UK there's something seriously wrong with the IT jobs market. On the job sites (TotalJobs is my go-to example) literally 99% of DevOps positions on any given day are being advertised through recruitment agencies. I was forced to deal with them for years and the majority are either incompetent or shady. I wrote an essay on this (https://mocko.org.uk/b/2015/10/14/dont-feed-the-beast-the-gr...) a few months ago detailing some of the appalling behaviour I've seen from recruitment agencies on the London tech scene and in the ensuing HN debate people raised equally harrowing examples of their own.

What's wrong with this? Well, from my perspective it's now basically impossible to land a job without either knowing the people hiring (i.e. networking, something we nerds are bad at) or lining the pockets of some talentless parasite who's found a way to insert himself into a high-value transaction.

The "only work with the ones you like" argument people often respond with completely misses the point. I believe it's based upon a misapprehension of the dynamic - nerds see "agent" in their job title and assume something like a literary agent, someone with incentives aligned with their own who'll pimp them around a variety of potential employers. The truth, however, is that agents aggressively pursue companies for leads (I've been on the hiring side too and had dozens of calls a day) and some actively threaten companies ("use us or we'll poach all your staff") into using their services. The social engineering they use to navigate the corporate phone system to reach decision makers can be quite ingenious. Companies with the backbone to say no are sadly rare, so from the the applicant's side if you see a job advertised and if you want it, you have no choice but to to kiss the agent's ass for an introduction to the employer.

This rent-seeking behaviour generally nets the agent a sum equivalent to the first few months of the applicant's salary or 10-20% of their contract rate for as long as they stay there. The only real service the agent offers in return for this is spamming nerds who they'd like to apply (as happened to the OP) and weeding out obviously bad applicants to save the employer's time.

Since writing that essay I've flat-out refused to have anything to do with recruitment agencies. Internal recruiters are fine (hey, if you're hiring a lot that's totally a specialised job) but I take the use of a recruitment agency as a sign that an employer either 1) gave in to an agency's aggressive sales tactics or 2) has a reputation so poor that putting their name on job ad actively discourages the best candidates.

In short - most recruitment agencies (at least on the London scene) are dishonest, greedy, target-driven parasites. They aren't your friend and the more you feed these people the worse the market gets.

Just say no.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#34
I am not a software engineer, but I am in finance with a solid resume. I say this because I am still a desirable candidate, but I probably receive about 1/10th the recruiter mail that you receive.

I am interviewing today with a great company, and meeting with another great company on Friday and I have a bunch of leads in the pipeline for next week. Here is my advice:

1) Figure out what companies and specific roles you want to work for.

2) Make sure you have your resume tailored to those roles and make sure you know how to answer the technical questions related to those openings.

3) Reach out to 1st, and 2nd connections to companies that interest you and ask to grab a coffee to learn more about the role.

4) If you are personable and seem like a good fit, they will ask what you are interested in and they will help make introductions. When possible, ask to meet someone else in the company closer to the role you are interested in. For example, if your friend works in sales, but you are in engineering, ask for an intro to someone in engineering. This is important because that other person will be better at vetting you.

5) You will enter the formal interview process with people already liking you and wanting you to succeed. You just walk in, have a good time and answer the technical questions.

6) Negotiate an offer.

6) When you get there, be a good person, help people out, build relationships and do great work. 5 years down the road, you will have more connections and more opportunities.

Don't make the mistake of letting leads come to you. That is how you end up in so/so companies and situations. Go after what you want.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#35
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on the wasting time part. I've actually had significantly better response rates from companies when going through a recruiter instead of applying directly to the position on the website/linkedin/whatever. At least with a recruiter you get someone with an active interest in getting your resume in front of a hiring manager, as opposed to your application disappearing into the sea of 100+ applicants vying for key…

Your comment seems to be contradicting itself. You say that looking for a recruiter is wasting time, but a recruiter is the best choice. Which one do you mean?

The reference to wasting time was about internal recruiters. OP is advocating for the use of external recruiters.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#36

Disclaimer: I am a software engineer at Underdog.io. There are a lot of platforms nowadays that help to remove the "middleman" of external recruiters. Underdog.io, Hired, Vettery, InterviewJet, and others. These platforms typically are working to connect companies and candidates together directly by removing the "find and apply to each company individually" type approach. Instead they accept candidate applications, p…

> Instead they accept candidate applications, put them > through their own internal approval process, and > then, if selected, present them to companies to then > make the decision if they want to talk to the > candidates directly So ... they're recruiters then? EDIT: Looking at their website, it's a recruitment agency with some small amount of candidate selection automation built in.

Yeah, sometimes products like these try not to market themselves as recruiters or agencies. When really they usually fill a similar role for companies, providing them with candidates for open positions. Some offer slightly different value than hiring an agency, but the role they play for a company is usually that of a recruiter/agency.

I think what is most important for candidates is that finding a new job is really hard and takes a lot of work, and utilizing as many options as you can to find the right job.

This also goes for companies as well, finding the right candidate for a job is hard and they should utilize as many options as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#37

Hi, I'm a recruiter. Look for job aggregators like Adzuna, Indeed, etc, which scrape all jobs on the web. When you see results, it should be easy to work out which jobs are posted by recruiters, and which have been posted directly by the company. In my (massively biased) experience, you are better off applying for a position when you've been put forward by a recruiter: * The recruiter knows what the client's salary r…

In my experience, disclosing my salary to recruiter has only ever had a negative effect.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#39
i agree. that was part of the inspiration behind https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11441183 . I am making progress on the product but primarily i think linkedin is biased towards serving recruiters better than users.

At the very least there should be a way to filter out good recruiters from the bad ones. I hate to say but more like a review system where you can rate your interaction with a recruiter.

Re: Ask HN: Do I have to go through recruiters nowadays, how do you find new jobs?

#40
post #37

Hi, I'm a recruiter. Look for job aggregators like Adzuna, Indeed, etc, which scrape all jobs on the web. When you see results, it should be easy to work out which jobs are posted by recruiters, and which have been posted directly by the company. In my (massively biased) experience, you are better off applying for a position when you've been put forward by a recruiter: * The recruiter knows what the client's salary r…

In my experience, disclosing my salary to recruiter has only ever had a negative effect.

What's the negative effect it's had?
Post reply on HN