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It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

nytimes.com

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Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#61

Post by Retric »

Alupis wrote: post #60
Retric wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your confusing politicians letting inflation kill minimum wage with having minimum wage fail. Second you completely ignored millions of people who can't be significantly educated or handle significant responsibility, but can hold down low skill repetitive jobs. Put down your blinders and try looking at the real world.

> Second you completely ignored millions of people who can't be significantly educated or handle significant responsibility, but can hold down low skill repetitive jobs You seem to, at the core of your argument, have little faith in people's capabilities. > Put down your blinders and try looking at the real world I've done just that. We have an evolving economy, and we need to put things in place to enable a successf…

> have little faith in people's capabilities.

  2.2% of the US population has an IQ below 70.
  8.9% of the US population has an IQ below 80.
Not all of these people are capable of being even minimally productive, but some are on the line where they are productive but only in a limited fashion. IQ is of course not the only limitation, intelligent people also often have issues.

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#62

Post by Alupis »

Retric wrote: post #61
Alupis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second you completely ignored millions of people who can't be significantly educated or handle significant responsibility, but can hold down low skill repetitive jobs You seem to, at the core of your argument, have little faith in people's capabilities. > Put down your blinders and try looking at the real world I've done just that. We have an evolving economy, and we need to put things in place to enable a successf…

> have little faith in people's capabilities. 2.2% of the US population has an IQ below 70. 8.9% of the US population has an IQ below 80. Not all of these people are capable of being even minimally productive, but some are on the line where they are productive but only in a limited fashion. IQ is of course not the only limitation, intelligent people also often have issues.

> Not all of these people are capable of being even minimally productive

IQ is a horrible indicator, and while influenced by genes, it is also biased by a number of factors, including upbringing environment.

As the son of a teacher, I refuse to accept the notion that our "dumbest" folks aren't capable of learning great things. It's attitudes like the one you're presenting that keep these folks down in the dirt. "They just aren't capable of complicated things!"... what hogwash. Even a person with diagnosed learning disabilities can accomplish great tasks given the proper guidance and training. You would have us just give up on them!

The devil in me questions the point of life if you just sit around and exist... nothing more.

I think we need to agree to disagree here.

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#63

Post by alistproducer2 »

A college degree is the new high school degree. You pretty much top out in the upper teens per hour without a degree: and that's if you're lucky.

I've been on both sides. Since getting my undergrads in Comp Sci and MIS I make more money than I ever thought I would. Before this I got a job driving buses for the city making ~$10.50/hr and I thought that was all the money in the world.

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#64

Post by Retric »

Alupis wrote: post #62
Retric wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have little faith in people's capabilities. 2.2% of the US population has an IQ below 70. 8.9% of the US population has an IQ below 80. Not all of these people are capable of being even minimally productive, but some are on the line where they are productive but only in a limited fashion. IQ is of course not the only limitation, intelligent people also often have issues.

> Not all of these people are capable of being even minimally productive IQ is a horrible indicator, and while influenced by genes, it is also biased by a number of factors, including upbringing environment. As the son of a teacher, I refuse to accept the notion that our "dumbest" folks aren't capable of learning great things. It's attitudes like the one you're presenting that keep these folks down in the dirt. "They…

Even the Army has long held minimum standards for mental capabilities. This is backed up by a lot of research.

I am also a son of a teacher, but that's very different than an actual teacher. I can't picture using that to try and argue from authority. Especially when the lowest end of the scale is segregated from everyone else.

Though, I guess wallowing in your ignorance is par for the course.

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#66

Post by actionwords »

askyourmother wrote: post #65

Speaking of working conditions, food for thought when you need that next apple shiny product: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3582640/

well said. Apple should pull out of the country entirely so these poor souls can go back to their provincial towns without electricity, running water, or infrastructure. What were we thinking?

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#67

Post by venomsnake »

askyourmother wrote: post #65

Speaking of working conditions, food for thought when you need that next apple shiny product: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3582640/

While worthy of its own submission, I think it is somewhat irrelevant of the current topic.

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#68

Post by some-guy »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #63

A college degree is the new high school degree. You pretty much top out in the upper teens per hour without a degree: and that's if you're lucky. I've been on both sides. Since getting my undergrads in Comp Sci and MIS I make more money than I ever thought I would. Before this I got a job driving buses for the city making ~$10.50/hr and I thought that was all the money in the world.

Same boat here. High school dropout, semi-professional musician / food-service worker, then got my CS degree at age 27.

Being on both sides is interesting, and in some ways I'm thankful I lived off a low without even a high school degree just for the life experience. I still ride the same bicycle, drive the same car, etc. I try not to forget how much a dollar is worth but it can be hard sometimes.

My life back then was far harder and far more stressful. It's hard being in front of people (food service worker) and dealing with customers for a lot of us -- it takes an emotional toll. I have a fairly lax schedule now and make almost eight times as much money. I hope that someday anyone can make a living wage if they work hard, whether they flip burgers or write enterprise Java spaghetti code.

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#69

Post by ngokevin »

"Among 17- to 24-year-olds, just over 10 percent have completed college or achieved an advanced degree."

Why would we expect 17 to 21 year olds to have completed college? The common trajectory is to complete your degree by 22, 4 years after high school.

Re: It’s a Tough Job Market for the Young Without College Degrees

#70

Post by darkengine »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #63

A college degree is the new high school degree. You pretty much top out in the upper teens per hour without a degree: and that's if you're lucky. I've been on both sides. Since getting my undergrads in Comp Sci and MIS I make more money than I ever thought I would. Before this I got a job driving buses for the city making ~$10.50/hr and I thought that was all the money in the world.

> A college degree is the new high school degree

This is right on the money. Going to uni felt like an extension of high school -- same students, same teachers. Nobody ever seemed like they wanted to be there; they just wanted to grind out their Bachelor's: an educational milestone no longer seen as optional.

Of course, it goes without saying that things are a little different in technology. Many job listings I came across required a BS, but an equal amount did not (or added the caveat 'or equivalent experience'). I'm currently happily and gainfully employed with no degree from a university.

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